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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9316687" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Then you have not understood what I was going for, because not all of these are melee monsters. In fact, at least one explicitly said "ranged attacks."I get that this won't fit everyone's notion of what they want a Sorcerer to be. That is the guaranteed, unavoidable consequence of it not being 100% identical to the Sorcerer as it exists today. But it really isn't the end of the world, and you can easily tone down the flavor for your own character(s)/game(s). Especially for those that don't have any special reason to enter melee, like Storm, Shadow, Chaos, Celestial, or Nosferatu (I did mention beasts after all).And my core assertion is, and has always been, that shoving that many totally incompatible mechanical concepts into a single class, and expecting all of them to be well-made and engaging, is a fool's errand.Non-aberrant psionics and FF summoners are distinct classes. Elementalist is a flavor, and Dragon would already cover a melee-leaning version of that flavor; the Evoker Wizard gives another path to that flavor, as does the Four Elements Monk, but I could see an Elemental Sorcerer (perhaps a complement to the Storm one?) that manifests more "cackling madboy/madgirl filling the world with <fire/ice/etc.>", possibly even presenting it as a sort of "build your own" option, with guidance for how to adapt its features to truly new "elements" like "sandstorm" or "lava.""Time magic" is...a complicated beast and I'm not even sure D&D can properly do it justice. Even video games struggle with that one, and they're so much better-equipped to deal with timers, reversing time, accelerating it, etc. But even then, that sounds like Wizard stuff to me, not Sorcerer.Telling me "do that and you can't shove six ideas into the Sorcerer!" is not going to produce the result you want, because I'm going to say, "Yes. That's the point. Give those ideas their own expression instead, if they're worth it, or find the class that fits them best if not." And Sorcerer is not always the best fit, even with what it already is.As I have said before, IIRC in this thread, D&D actually contains somewhere between 18 and 24 distinct class fantasies. All but two of the ones you cited (elementalist, time mage) is, under this argument, a distinct class fantasy that merits its own class. The former is a flavor applicable to several classes/class-fantasies (Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer, Monk, Barbarian, Ranger, at the very least). The latter is a tricky flavor that I'm not sure TTRPGs do well in the first place, but even if they do, Sorcerer is not the best (nor only) home for it, others being Wizard, Swordmage, Psion, possibly Assassin and/or Avenger, and maybe more.</blockquote>

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