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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9323721" data-attributes="member: 6801228">See but... there are already parts of that which are true the other way around. For example, I don't care if a level 20 Fighter can squish a level 20 wizard they can get their hands on. 9 times out of the 10 the level 20 fighter is putting hands on Pit Fiends and Ancient Dragons which are already billed as powerful martial and mundane threats. So I don't care about that angle of it. As for the DCs... that kind of doesn't matter. Spellcasters can ALREADY achieve things that are utterly impossible for non-casters to handle. A Non-Caster can't interrogate a tree, or teleport through a Wall of Force, or sneak into a fortress as a mouse. This is actually why I've seen a lot of people say that Druids, Wizards and Bards are better at exploration challenges than rogues. Rogues have to play by the rules of physics. Spellcasters don't. Let us say that a Lock has a DC 35 to pick, a level 20 Rogue with a +17 to the roll would still need to roll an 18 to unlock it. Knock unlocks it automatically. So, my concern on that end is minimal, though it would be a hard thing to figure out how to make all that work. And that kind of demonstrates the point, to a degree. That thing you say is bad for team gameplay? That certain challenges and fighters are IMPOSSIBLE for one side of the divide to deal with? That is already true. A high level human fighter's best defense against a high level spellcaster is winning initiative and killing the spellcaster before they can cast. Fighter's don't have answers to things like fear effects, hold person, charm and dominate effects, sure they can take the right feat and with the changes to Indomitable they actually can succeed on a few of those saves, but overall they are much more vulnerable. And if a skill challenge involves something like flying, speaking to the dead, heck enchanted bars that cannot be broken with the McGuffin on the other side are a terrible challenge for even high level martials (Quite literally, you just have to make it unreasonable for a lasso to work and they are out of options entirely), while low-level casters will laugh at how trivial it is to get the item (Mage hand, unseen servant, misty step, enlarge/reduce, just to name a few). So... we are ALREADY in this situation, and many of us see widening the martial toolbox as the best solution.</blockquote>

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