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Message: <blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 1505945" data-attributes="member: 14140">I disagree. Speaking from 3,0 and from memory here... INCORPOREAL vs DESOLID DnD incorporeality makes non-magical attacks ineffective entirely and all magical attacks (except force attacks) from corporeal sources miss 50% of the time. Contrast to HERo desolid where a "common" type of FX will affect you at 100% (one example given is, for instance magic.) and you are not too far off. But moreover, while incorporeal in HERO all your attacks are ineffective, or were bought at 3x cost (+2 advantage for usable while desolid) whereas in DnD all your spells and such are fine and only your physical touch attacks are nerfed. This is a huge edge fr DND incorporeality. both games have the ability to pass thru walls and barriers of normal sorts as an automatic thing. if the range of sight thing is big enough to sweep aside the "can attack at ful, power" issue, thats a significant difference between our games. INVISIBILITY vs INVISIBILITY In DND if the enemy knows where you are and attacks, he has a 50% chance of missing flat out on any hit he rolls. In HERo if he hits, he hit.  In DND the spot check to notice where you are is pretty steep... starts around 20 and even rolls with listen to pinpoint your hex are also around 20ish, unless you are shouting or such. In HERO, all you need to do is make a listen check (typical odds start at 62% chance and go up) and you get the penalties much reduced. hero book not with me but the penalties go to something like -1 to hit or somesuch on your attacks against invisible guys you have made the realtively easy listen check or smell check against... In DND you are invisible until you attack while in DND you are invisible until you get close to someone due to fringe. Both systems have more expensive/higher level versions that counter this. In DND the spells (see invisible or glitterdust or invisibility purge) that counter invisibility are at the same level or higher and have durations on par. In HERO, the detect invisible power would cost half of the cost of invisibility the cheapest invis and would not take endurance. I am sure there is more but, thats enough for now. Enough theory... in practice, in generalwhen playing hero, the penalties for invis after the enemy makes a non-targetting oer roll are not too severe and in fact, invisibility in combat is frequently not worth the hassle. More specifically, the value of "other sense group" targetting senses, given the frequency of flash and darkness attacks, makes normal invisibility very much a crap shoot as to whether its worth anything combat wise. of course this is highly subjective and dependent on the game scale and genre being run, but any game i ever ran in or ran, if invisibility was commonly available, the counters were also. Sorry, but, IMX, having GMed and played both... while both systems have invisibility as good for sneaky stuff out of combat (fringe working only slightly against HERo here), invisibility in DND is much more effective in actual combat IMX.   I get where you are coming from there. But, first, depending on what the problem is, there might not be a "fixed way". In a mystery based game, enough telepathy to subtley read others minds is just broken. Desolid in many genres could be just broken. Certainly time travel is frequently just broken. One thing i will mention (not that i think you are saying this, but some will)... points do not always balance powers. the ability to go back in time 5 minutes is imbalanced at 20 pts, 50 pts or even 150 pts. NRay vision is another such case, especially in mystery based scenarios.Depending on the game, cost itself may not be an adequate balance factor. Some powers will need scenario based or campaighn based controls applied by scripting. However, I do agree with the notion that flagging powers which are (either overtly or deceptively) abusive as such is a good idea in general. One can quibble over which ones should be and which ones should not, and without my book in front of me i wont argue this one vs that one.  However, as you point out, flagging them is perhaps like adult content warning labels and R ratings... they merely increase the interest in them. If you want to make this worthwhile, you might instead want to put a few sentences in each "warning danger!" power about what causes the problem and offer suggestions on how to fix it.  But then again... remember, psion has clarified... this thread is about how DnD never does this. [Uncalled for comment snipped. -Darkness]</blockquote>

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