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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sepulchrave II" data-source="post: 5375595" data-attributes="member: 4303">I'd suggest starting with the spell list itself - on top of the bare bones of the class - rather than trying to accommodate/balance it by modifying existing class abilities - i.e. pull out everything except spellcasting and think about other abilities later.So d8 hit points, 3 good saves, 3/4 BAB, 4 skill points/level.My gut feeling at this point would actually be to use the 2/3 spell progression (like the bard) because this can comfortably subsume some variant of higher-end monk abilities by translating them into spells.Then I'd look at 6th-level spells (say levels 5-7, across all class spell lists) and see what jibed best with what is 'monkish'; for me harm, heal, wind walk, true seeing, stone tell, commune with nature seem a good fit. I like the idea of creeping doom too.I'd drop QP altogether, and replace it with slay living but maybe bump it up a level - 6th-level spells would be available at level 16.Appropriate lower-level spells would include levitate, speak with animals/plants, nondetection, stoneskin, detect thoughts etc. etc. yadda. I'd give Eschew Materials for free.Beyond this, things start to get trickier. I'd retain the Wis bonus to AC. I'd retain Evasion and Improved Evasion. Neutralize poison and cure disease would replace the equivalent immunities; dimension door instead of abundant step. I'd lean more toward swift expeditious retreat over a speed bonus, possibly also with a higher-level variant which bumped the speed bonus up to 60ft.Then I'd start to think about how unarmed damage worked.BUT all that said and done, I think the basic problem with the monk is that we kind of expect him to be able to do everything, when in fact he can do very little very well. The reason I asked the extent to which balance was a consideration, and whether the solution you sought was systemic or game-specific is because in practice I believe the easiest solution is1) Multiclass the PHB monk or;2) Gestalt.</blockquote>

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