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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maerdwyn" data-source="post: 1683813" data-attributes="member: 835">Has promise, still needs tweaking, though, I'd say.   (I also will just be thinking out loud here, and haven't had much sleep, so this is all "FWIWYMMV" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />)+1 Bardic level per ability, combined with the perform-based level limits on when abilities are taken means that one could not advance in bard level each time a chracter level is gained.  (probably not a practical concern, as I'm not sure I can guarantee Fredar will make it to 20th level in anything <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />, but at 20th character level, a given character could only obtain 12 bard levels).  This option is still a possibility.   Two other possible options:a)  +1 bard level per level of bard spell progression.  Again, there is an issue of spell-less bards, and expense.  A bard under that system is certainly not going to get very many other skills or feats, etc. as he'll be using almost all his CPs on bard abilities and spells (and can't be good at one without being good at the other. b)Effective bard level equals  Perform Ranks -3.  This allows a character to spend a resource (skill points) to get better at only those abilities he wants to purchase, rather than having to purchase other abilities to get good at ones he already has.  Also limits bardic level to the character level, and only if perform is maxed out. As for the entry feat, is there a conceptual difference between the "rage1, 2, 3, trapsense etc." progression  and the  "inspire courage +1, +2, +3, fascinate, etc." progression ?  I guess what I'm asking is what the reasoning is behind requiring an extra feat to get into the bard ability progression, but not into the pregressions of the other classes' abilities? (not saying there isn't any, just wondering how it goes)</blockquote>

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