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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doghead" data-source="post: 1683885" data-attributes="member: 8243">a big (but pretty useless) postFun Where In What You Might Make Verks?Taking any form of class progression is going to demand a fair bit of sacrifice. Any character taking following a spellcasting progression is going to have to sacrifice quite a lot as it will cost them 4 CP of their 8 CP per level. The goes for most of the other main class ability 'limited' progressions like Rage [9 steps], Wild shape [13'ish* steps] and Sneak Attack [10 steps]. These have a somewaht limited number of progressions available, so characters can specialise till they complete the progression or they can alternate between progressing their speciallity and improving other areas. I'm happy with this. From fairly early on I realised that while you can build some sweet combinations, you are not going to get the breadth of a class based character. The leanness of the characters was part of the appeal for me. * This one going to need some though for the higher levels as well.  I've thought about this approach. It does mean that if an high level character with quite a few ranks in perform took Bardic Music, he may be more effective than  a charcter who has had Bardic Music for a number of levels. Is this a problem? Mechanically probably not. Conceptually it seem a little backwards. But it does seem to be the most straightforward. This is a good point. Having Inspire courage a progression better parallels some of the abilities of the other classes. The use of Bardic Music as an entry was just a hold over from the original rules. OK, to summariseThe basic issue is the manner in which the Bardic Music abilities are aquired, and determining the Bard Level in order to calculate the # of times a day they can be used.Bardic Music Abilities: Countersong (Su): 3 ranks, Fascinate (Sp): 3 Ranks, 1 creature + 1 per 3 bard levels. Inspire Courage (Su): 3 Ranks, +1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th)Inspire Competence (Su): 6 Ranks, not affected by level.Suggestion (Sp): 9 Ranks, Will saving vs (DC 10 + 1/2 bard level + Cha modifier)Inspire Greatness (Su): 12 Ranks, 1 ally, 2 at 12th, 3 at 15th, 4 at 18thSong of Freedom (Sp): 15 Ranks, caster level equals bard levelInspire Heroics (Su): 18 Ranks, 1 creature + 1 at 18th. Mass Suggestion (Sp): 21 ranks.OK. It seems a little odd, but using Perform -3 as the effective Bard level does work in a reverse engineering way.With the classless system, I was looking to give character's the ability to progress key abilities more quickly than was possible in the class system, but to limit automatic progressions. The perform skill prereqs make Bardic Music one area in which characters will not be able to specialise in and learn quicker than in the standard class system. Its also has quite a few abilities scale with level. Humm. Tricky.There is a simple solution somewhere. I'm going to go away and mull it over.</blockquote>

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