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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maerdwyn" data-source="post: 2208662" data-attributes="member: 835">I've typed a response seveal time, and always seemed to lose it (grrr). Despite the length, this is just brainstorming - feel free to discard it wholesale <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.  Anyway, my thoughts were along the same lines as Seonaid's in that I like the idea of tying skill points, not just skills to abilities:-1 skill point per rank you are trying to achieve-Skill points have to come from the ability tied to the skill. Alternatively, you can spend points from other abilities at half value.-At first level, you get 1 skill point for every ability point you have. -At each level after 1st, you gain skill points from one ability of you choice, plus 4 general points that can be spent anywhere.  So if you had Fredar's ability array, you could start with:[sblock]Abilities: Str 15, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 7, Cha 16.STR 15, Granting 15 skill points at 1st level.  14 spent on STR skills, 1 left over):Climb 4 (1+2+3+4=10 points)Jump 2 (1+2=3 points)Swim 1 (1 point) DEX (17 skill points, all spent):Hide 4 (1+2+3+4=10 points)Tumble 3 (1+2+3=6 points)Sleight of hand 1 (1 point)  CON (11 skill points.  10 spent on CON skill, 1 left over):Concentration 4 (10 points)  INT (10 skill points, all spent on INT skills)Search 3 (6 points)Disable Device 2 (3 points)Appraise 1 (1 point) WIS (7 skill points, all spent on WIS skills)Spot 3 (6 points)Listen 1 (1 point) CHA (17 skill points, all spent on CHA skills.  1 left over STR point + 1 left over CON point=one more CHA skill point)Perform (Sing) 4 (10 points)Bluff 3 (6 points)Diplomacy 1 (using the points left over in STR and CON)[/sblock] At second level, he would get 16 skill points from his CHA score (raising Perform to 5, Bluff to 4, Diplomacy to 4, Perform (lute) to 1 and Gather Information to 1) and 4 general points (raising his Tumble to 4). When he above 5th level, he become unable to max out even two of his CHA based skills - he need to really specialize form that point on in order to kep advancing. Or he can broaden his skills and remain versatile but not accomplished. *************The other idea (and this is separate from the above stuff) I was batting around was using general skills (Like "Athletics") that gets paired with more specific skills (Swim and Climb), where you get two modifiers to your roll - your general aptitude for the type of activity you are attempting, plus the roll for your training in the particular facet of the activity.  To become more athletic in general, is very difficult (so this would use the 1+2+3 skill points to get to rank 3 model), but once you are athletic, being trained further in swimming is easier(one point per rank in the specific skill). You can only have as many ranks in the specific skill as you have in the general one. So getting Athletic 4 (Swim 4, Climb 4) would cost: 1+2+3+4+4+4=18 skill points (4 ranks in a specific skill seems to be about where it become more expensive than the original system).  Under this system, I would use the normal, INT based skill points, maybe increased just a little if desired. This system encourages breadth, but not acheivement - the general skills are used as the modifier in "untrained" situations, so you get a bang for your skill points by advancing them. Eventually though, it would be too expensive to keep advancing your general apptitudes for Athletics or Academics or Agility. Example:[sblock] Fredar started off play with 28 skill points, and put ranks into Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Move Silently, Perform(singing), Sleight of hand, and Tumble. Under the propose system  Those skills might be grouped as follows(along with how Fredar might have spent his skill points on them) : General Skill: ....Specialty....Specialty Persuasion 2 (2 ranks of Persuasion costs 1+2=3 skill points):....Bluff 2 (2 ranks of the Persuasion specialty Bluff costs 2 skill points)....Diplomacy 1....Intimidate 1 Reconnaissance 1 (1 point)....Gather Information 1 (1 point)....Research 0 Sneak: 2 (3 skill points)....Hide 2 (2 points)....Move Sliently 1 (1 points) Musician: 3 (6 skill points)....Singing 3 (3 skill points)....Oratory....Woodwinds Agility: 2 (3 skill points)....Climb....Tumbling [/sblock]To make a skill check, your roll=d20+General skill rank+specific skill rank+ability modifier His skills are slightly higher under this system than they were originally, but only at the first could levels.   Fredar's Perform(signing) has a total bonus of +9 at first level, compares to a total bonus of +7 under the original system.  At second level, if he wants to go to +10, however, it will cost him all four of his skill points (since his general skill has to be improved before the specific one, and he can't go beyond that without saving up skill points or spending CP on them Now that I go through this with an example, it may provide a little too much in the way of breadth of skills, but it was an idea <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/nervous.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":heh:" title="Nervous Laugh    :heh:" data-shortname=":heh:" /></blockquote>

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