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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wrahn" data-source="post: 1856608" data-attributes="member: 9191">A single 30th level mage can easily toss out 4 meteor swarms a round and even making saves that is still 48d6 damage.  Toss in a slightly more viscious build and you can have that empowered to 72d6 (That for reference is 252 points of damage on average)You were comparing them to the "average" 30th level caster, of which there is no such thing.  I could use the existing rules to make something whose save is beyond any of us.Abstract, yes, meaningless, no.  If the numbers were meaningless we should be playing first level characters.I am not competing with the other characters DCs, I am not competing with other players skill checks either, If I were, I would be calling to high heaven about how Arion is built.  And yes there is a disparity between characters, the answer can be found in building other characters up rather than taking our selves down.If there is no change in the difference between the saves, there is no difference.  DCs can be as high or as low as the GM wants.Not possible, they aren't bought that way.  It is a continuous spell.  The competence bonus and the Luck bonus maybe (as they are bought that way) but, short of getting rid of it or placing a "limitation" on it, they you can't really do that.It is only a "breakdown" of the system if you are comparing yourself to the rest of the group, which I have repeatedly said is a mistake.You weren't listening to my point, the system is more than capable of throwing things at us that will challenge our saves, if you don't think so, then you haven't been playing the high end, at all.You obviously haven't been playing high level games...There is SO much that you need to prepare for, so much that you can not prepare for.  Just off the top of my head, here are a few examples of what we could be facing:  (epic)Psedonatural Bone Ooze, Elite Half-Fiend Great Wyrm Red Dragon, Asmodeus(!), A Paragon Tarrasque (or an Epic Pseudo Natural Tarrasque would be fun), Tiamat (!) (though she is only CR 25, I think you would have to throw in her cohorts),  a 10th level Soul Eater Pit Fiend with a 30th level sorceror and a shade rogue and a 20th level Firegiant cleric.If you think combat at epic level can be devolved into rock/paper/scissors or that Rahveon is protected from magic, then you need to reassess what we are going to be facing.  The epic combats that I have been involved in are huge, fun and most of all immensely complicated.If you think our saves are too high, look at the ruin swarm (CR23)</blockquote>

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