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[OOC] The Forges of the Mountain King- 1st Level Dwarf PCs [Full]
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<blockquote data-quote="Goonalan" data-source="post: 5602448" data-attributes="member: 16069"><p>Hmmm...</p><p></p><p>I just looked again through the rules and I see the following-</p><p></p><p>Helpless</p><p>While a creature is helpless, it grants combat advantage and can be the target of a coup de grace.</p><p></p><p>&</p><p></p><p>Coup de Grace</p><p>Sometimes, you have the opportunity to attack a foe who is completely defenseless. It’s not chivalrous to do so, but it is viciously effective. This action is known as a coup de grace.</p><p></p><p>COUP DE GRACE: STANDARD ACTION</p><p></p><p>Helpless Target: You can deliver a coup de grace against a helpless enemy adjacent to you. Use any attack power you could normally use against the enemy, including a basic attack.</p><p>Hit: You score a critical hit.</p><p></p><p>Slaying the Target Outright: If you deal damage greater than or equal to the target’s bloodied value, the target dies.</p><p></p><p>So...</p><p></p><p>From the above you get Combat Advantage, you still have to make a To Hit roll, if you hit you do a Crit- is that right?</p><p></p><p>My problem lies in the fact that the creature has no HP, it's dead- therefore I suggested a much easier To Hit, with the above rules you just get a +2, unless I'm not seeing it right- feel free to step in, I'm very reliant on the compendium here.</p><p></p><p>In essence that would mean you need to hit AC18 (if you were targeting AC) to hit the Zombie Ogre... using the above rules.</p><p></p><p>My suggestion was to make it all defences 10- I figure you can hit the thing.</p><p></p><p>The creature has no HP so you can't coup de grace it, you can't kill a dead thing until it is alive- if you see what I mean.</p><p></p><p>I had in mind a number of HP to hack through a limb, I was treating the creature as an object- it has low defences, and a set number of hit points to destroy (sever).</p><p></p><p>I have no problem with questioning the rules, likewise I have no problem with making this a Skill Challenge (as suggested). I would however like to work out where my above interpretation went wrong, just because I like to learn.</p><p></p><p>And of course I don't think you're being argumentative, this is a group game in which a lot of the rules are subject to interpretation- particularly as they do not cover such eventualities as- chopping through dead, soon to be not dead, Ogre Zombie's limbs... </p><p></p><p>Please reply then I'll make a ruling.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Goonalan, post: 5602448, member: 16069"] Hmmm... I just looked again through the rules and I see the following- Helpless While a creature is helpless, it grants combat advantage and can be the target of a coup de grace. & Coup de Grace Sometimes, you have the opportunity to attack a foe who is completely defenseless. It’s not chivalrous to do so, but it is viciously effective. This action is known as a coup de grace. COUP DE GRACE: STANDARD ACTION Helpless Target: You can deliver a coup de grace against a helpless enemy adjacent to you. Use any attack power you could normally use against the enemy, including a basic attack. Hit: You score a critical hit. Slaying the Target Outright: If you deal damage greater than or equal to the target’s bloodied value, the target dies. So... From the above you get Combat Advantage, you still have to make a To Hit roll, if you hit you do a Crit- is that right? My problem lies in the fact that the creature has no HP, it's dead- therefore I suggested a much easier To Hit, with the above rules you just get a +2, unless I'm not seeing it right- feel free to step in, I'm very reliant on the compendium here. In essence that would mean you need to hit AC18 (if you were targeting AC) to hit the Zombie Ogre... using the above rules. My suggestion was to make it all defences 10- I figure you can hit the thing. The creature has no HP so you can't coup de grace it, you can't kill a dead thing until it is alive- if you see what I mean. I had in mind a number of HP to hack through a limb, I was treating the creature as an object- it has low defences, and a set number of hit points to destroy (sever). I have no problem with questioning the rules, likewise I have no problem with making this a Skill Challenge (as suggested). I would however like to work out where my above interpretation went wrong, just because I like to learn. And of course I don't think you're being argumentative, this is a group game in which a lot of the rules are subject to interpretation- particularly as they do not cover such eventualities as- chopping through dead, soon to be not dead, Ogre Zombie's limbs... Please reply then I'll make a ruling. [/QUOTE]
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