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<blockquote data-quote="PallidPatience" data-source="post: 3312573" data-attributes="member: 16932"><p>Because of a technical mistake by the police, which caused the damning evidence to be inadmissible in a court of law. I'm not saying that most people agreeing on something makes it right. I'm just saying that most people agreeing on something doesn't make it wrong, either, and that sometimes, it really is simple enough that most people can see it clearly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It is true that we know a lot of things that she does not. However, we have been present for every interaction she has had with the OotS, and Xykon. Therefore, we have a good idea what she knows about those two entities. At the same time, we have a good idea what she knows about Shojo (through analysis of what others know of Shojo, especially within her own order). We also know all the clues that she has been given to leap to this conclusion. These clues follow.</p><p></p><p>1. Xykon is still around, despite the fact that the OotS claims to have destroyed him.</p><p>2. Shojo lied in order to get the OotS to perform a task which the paladins, due to a dead man's oath, are incapable of doing.</p><p>3. Belkar may or may not be evil, and does not like having <em>Detect Evil</em> cast on him.</p><p></p><p>Her conclusion is that the OotS and Shojo have been working with Xykon all along. Is that reasonable? No one is judging Miko for not being omniscient. We are only saying that she is filling in large gaps of facts with her "theory" in order to satisfy her version of the world. She is not making an effort to verify her facts, or even find out what in the Nine Hells is happening around her. She merely assumes large portions of things are true, and then acts on it. That's not very WISE, and Wisdom is one of a Paladin's required high ability scores (as it is for a Monk, which is her other class).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>She is a Paladin/Monk, both of which have Knowledge (religion) as a class skill. At the same time, she is a member of a Paladin Order which we can reasonably assume would have some knowledgeable people about, and probably some books on common or particularly dangerous forms of undead. Therefore, her not knowing about a lich is entirely her own fault, because she made no effort to find out, even KNOWING that Xykon IS a lich.</p><p></p><p>And, yes. <em>True Resurrection</em> would restore a destroyed lich to life, and his phylactery is still intact.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That has been covered. He sent her to bring them in to the trial because that was the only way that he could tell them about the gates, which he wanted them to investigate and defend. While it is possible that she would assume that the reasons were unsavory, does that assumption really excuse her method of dealing with him? She cut him in half in anger, despite Hinjo's pleas for reasonability, and his lack of self-defense.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The point we are trying to make is that this kind of rashness is not a quality conducive to paladinhood. Risking one's own life rashly is one thing, and, while foolish, will never leave one stripped of paladinhood. Rashly striking down someone that one is convinced, despite the facts or lack thereof, is evil and in league with greater evils is an entirely different story. Paladins are supposed to be WISE, as I've said before. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is far more than getting the DM's clues wrong. She invented her own clues, and made up a story for it and everything. This isn't a situation where she got a road map, and just knocked on the next door of the proper answer. She ended up on another planet. </p><p></p><p>And you've hit the jackpot of most of the problem. She didn't act based on facts or on reasonable suspicions. She acted based on the fact that she was ANGRY. Roy had had the guts to reject her, and that made her angry. Xykon merely toyed with her and let her go, and that made her angry. Shojo had been lying to her, and that made her angry. So she concocted a story based on her rage that would justify her striking the man down. She took out her anger on Shojo. There was no justice involved. That's not something a paladin does.</p><p></p><p>While she is free to have emotions, it is not her perogative to act based on them. She, being an agent of divine Law and Good, is supposed to be above such petty actions. But she succumbs to them, and how!</p><p></p><p>[QUOTEWhere she made her mistake was not in gathering evidence to support her conclusions.</p></blockquote><p></p><p>Where she made her mistake was in acting solely out of anger and a need for vengeance.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="PallidPatience, post: 3312573, member: 16932"] Because of a technical mistake by the police, which caused the damning evidence to be inadmissible in a court of law. I'm not saying that most people agreeing on something makes it right. I'm just saying that most people agreeing on something doesn't make it wrong, either, and that sometimes, it really is simple enough that most people can see it clearly. It is true that we know a lot of things that she does not. However, we have been present for every interaction she has had with the OotS, and Xykon. Therefore, we have a good idea what she knows about those two entities. At the same time, we have a good idea what she knows about Shojo (through analysis of what others know of Shojo, especially within her own order). We also know all the clues that she has been given to leap to this conclusion. These clues follow. 1. Xykon is still around, despite the fact that the OotS claims to have destroyed him. 2. Shojo lied in order to get the OotS to perform a task which the paladins, due to a dead man's oath, are incapable of doing. 3. Belkar may or may not be evil, and does not like having [I]Detect Evil[/I] cast on him. Her conclusion is that the OotS and Shojo have been working with Xykon all along. Is that reasonable? No one is judging Miko for not being omniscient. We are only saying that she is filling in large gaps of facts with her "theory" in order to satisfy her version of the world. She is not making an effort to verify her facts, or even find out what in the Nine Hells is happening around her. She merely assumes large portions of things are true, and then acts on it. That's not very WISE, and Wisdom is one of a Paladin's required high ability scores (as it is for a Monk, which is her other class). She is a Paladin/Monk, both of which have Knowledge (religion) as a class skill. At the same time, she is a member of a Paladin Order which we can reasonably assume would have some knowledgeable people about, and probably some books on common or particularly dangerous forms of undead. Therefore, her not knowing about a lich is entirely her own fault, because she made no effort to find out, even KNOWING that Xykon IS a lich. And, yes. [I]True Resurrection[/I] would restore a destroyed lich to life, and his phylactery is still intact. That has been covered. He sent her to bring them in to the trial because that was the only way that he could tell them about the gates, which he wanted them to investigate and defend. While it is possible that she would assume that the reasons were unsavory, does that assumption really excuse her method of dealing with him? She cut him in half in anger, despite Hinjo's pleas for reasonability, and his lack of self-defense. The point we are trying to make is that this kind of rashness is not a quality conducive to paladinhood. Risking one's own life rashly is one thing, and, while foolish, will never leave one stripped of paladinhood. Rashly striking down someone that one is convinced, despite the facts or lack thereof, is evil and in league with greater evils is an entirely different story. Paladins are supposed to be WISE, as I've said before. This is far more than getting the DM's clues wrong. She invented her own clues, and made up a story for it and everything. This isn't a situation where she got a road map, and just knocked on the next door of the proper answer. She ended up on another planet. And you've hit the jackpot of most of the problem. She didn't act based on facts or on reasonable suspicions. She acted based on the fact that she was ANGRY. Roy had had the guts to reject her, and that made her angry. Xykon merely toyed with her and let her go, and that made her angry. Shojo had been lying to her, and that made her angry. So she concocted a story based on her rage that would justify her striking the man down. She took out her anger on Shojo. There was no justice involved. That's not something a paladin does. While she is free to have emotions, it is not her perogative to act based on them. She, being an agent of divine Law and Good, is supposed to be above such petty actions. But she succumbs to them, and how! [QUOTEWhere she made her mistake was not in gathering evidence to support her conclusions.[/QUOTE] Where she made her mistake was in acting solely out of anger and a need for vengeance. [/QUOTE]
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