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<blockquote data-quote="el-remmen" data-source="post: 4501474" data-attributes="member: 11">That's be cool! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Two things:Again, I disagree, I think the meta-knowledge of game rules implies players.&nbsp; How can there be a game without players?I would not be able to use my personal experience as evidence if I wrote about this as an academic paper, but luckily this is just a D&amp;D messageboard. . . <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> - The games I play in/run are exactly like that - We have our characters make decisions rooted &quot;in their own motivations, goals, and histories&quot; even if they are less than ideal decisions because to us that is what good gaming is about (obviously, not everyone feels this way).&nbsp; At the same time, our characters are vaguely aware of things like spell levels and the danger of someone with &quot;experience&quot;, even if when talk in-character we avoid the meta-game language as much as possible.However, I think your point about the scenes that do not involve the PCs is a good one and definitely problematizes my reading - but again, the idea of slippage I put forth covers this - the narrative moves up and down along a continuum of awareness and centrality of the PCs - the inconsistancy is part of my point, and part of what I like about the comic (as I wrote in my statement of purpose for my PhD program applications, it is the problematic aspects of texts that often give us an avenue of entry to them).I wasn't reading OotS much during the party's first run-in with Miko, when they were arrested, but I remember long debates on here about whether the party was being &quot;railroaded&quot; and there being an eruption of disagreement because being &quot;railroaded&quot; implies that there is a DM.&nbsp; I want to go back and read those strips and search for those threads.P.S. This is a great conversation. I am really enjoying it. It makes me wish I were writing my thesis on meta-narrative in comic books like I considered at one point instead of what I am writing it on (Urban space and its shaping of identity in Contemporary American Literature of Brooklyn).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="el-remmen, post: 4501474, member: 11"] That's be cool! :) Two things: Again, I disagree, I think the meta-knowledge of [I]game[/I] rules implies players. How can there be a game without players? I would not be able to use my personal experience as evidence if I wrote about this as an academic paper, but luckily this is just a D&D messageboard. . . ;) - The games I play in/run are exactly like that - We have our characters make decisions rooted "in their own motivations, goals, and histories" even if they are less than ideal decisions because to us that is what good gaming is about (obviously, not everyone feels this way). At the same time, our characters are vaguely aware of things like spell levels and the danger of someone with "experience", even if when talk in-character we avoid the meta-game language as much as possible. However, I think your point about the scenes that do not involve the PCs is a good one and definitely problematizes my reading - but again, the idea of slippage I put forth covers this - the narrative moves up and down along a continuum of awareness and centrality of the PCs - the inconsistancy is part of my point, and part of what I [I]like[/I] about the comic (as I wrote in my statement of purpose for my PhD program applications, it is the problematic aspects of texts that often give us an avenue of entry to them). I wasn't reading OotS much during the party's first run-in with Miko, when they were arrested, but I remember long debates on here about whether the party was being "railroaded" and there being an eruption of disagreement because being "railroaded" implies that there is a DM. I want to go back and read those strips and search for those threads. P.S. This is a great conversation. I am really enjoying it. It makes me wish I were writing my thesis on meta-narrative in comic books like I considered at one point instead of what I am writing it on (Urban space and its shaping of identity in Contemporary American Literature of Brooklyn). [/QUOTE]

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