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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pauln6" data-source="post: 6726836" data-attributes="member: 6777422">Ha ha - yeah every DM has had trouble with players who simply refuse (or just don't have the mindset) to role play within the confines of the sandbox handed to them by their DM, just like some players play the same character personality regardless of race, sex, class, and alignment, and some players whose new characters mysteriously bear a grudge against other characters who had a hand in the demise of that player's previous character.Of course, even in 1e saving throws were not confined solely to magical threats and some modules required e.g. a save vs petrification.  It's so strange that some players can't translate that to skills, which can be saves by another name.And of course we have the fact that in the real world we have non-magical inspirational healing from meditation, the placebo effect, and adrenalin (although most would view the latter as temporary hit points I suppose).I can't throw stones from my glass house since I think a D&D group  featuring a pixie, a goliath, a shardmind and a shifter would be an  abomination to be exterminated in my game.  You can't please all of the  people all of the time.</blockquote>