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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6729915" data-attributes="member: 87792">Who says "Equal to a cleric but without magic"?The job of a cleric is to allow the party to keep going and survive spike hit point attrition. Wind Walk, for example, is probably not wanted on a Warlord. But some recovery and some spike damage mitigation is absolutely necessary.And the "without magic" is a can of worms of its own. The warlord (barring an archetype) can not be a spellcaster. A classic AD&D fighter by about 3rd level on a decent number of hit points is impossible to kill in a minute by a brawny orc with a greataxe in a minute in which the orc gets extremely lucky. Is that magic? Because it certainly isn't mundane.The warlord needs to be in the same bracket for magic as the fighter, rogue, and barbarian. I.e. not a caster. But all D&D classes are larger than life.It's also why I find the implied setting of the 5e universe boring. Spells are specifically controlled manifestations of magic to the point of being technology. They are also interchangeable in a way hard earned skill or genuinely magical effects shouldn't be.Aaaggghhhhhh!!!!!Having a dragonborn's breath weapon recharge on a short rest is exactly how it worked in 4e. Encounter powers were explicitly in the rules powers that recharged on a short rest.Again, a less magical, less fantastic world. But agreed. Or even do the job properly of a 4e fighter. But then when I checked, a 4e fighter took IIRC 7 feats to match in 3.X before they had any class powers at all.A sticky spell. Being serious, vicious mockery as an at will is actually something 4e brought to the table and that influenced gameplay. Thunderwave is just another spell and its 5e version is very different from its 4e one as is its place within what makes 4e.And why am I highlighting this? Because if you're putting the 5e Vicious Mockery alongside the 5e Thunderwave as things introduced then it's clear that you simply don't get how things fitted together in 4e. Which makes you unqualified to talk about them. There's a difference between a decent translation (Vicious Mockery) and something looking vaguely the same with a nametag (Thunderwave).The claim was that all classes in any core PHB would be in the 5e PHB. It didn't happen. And Mearls chose to follow one of the least honest edition warrior points about shouting hands back on.And your lack of understanding of what was important and why things were important needs to go. I've put in another thread why the warlord is a class that vastly opens up the worldbuilding and playstyle of 5e. A warlord allows you to play recognisable D&D with no spellcasters in your party. The warlord more than any other option meant that I could play a good Lord of the Rings game in 4e that would have not worked in any other edition. It opens up Dark Sun and pre-DL1 (and early DL1) Dragonlance to be viable settings without needing specialist classes and piles of rules like the Obscure Death Rule.You seem to take "This has a namebadge and this looks vaguely like that" to be anything other than superficial.Cry me a river. "I don't like the names they call things." In terms of complaints that's trivial.Try "The setting, the party, and the campaign I want to run won't even come close to working in the new D&D". Because that is what a loss of Warlords means in practice. It means that every setting needs to be covered in magic with spellcasters that make Gandalf look like a beginner.It depends how they are mechanically defining magic. If the warlord goes through their spellbook picking spells each morning to remember the mystic words and they vanish from your mind that would be ridiculous. If on the other hand it was just a single line of text and the words themselves weren't even affected by an anti-magic sphere that would be perfect.Nope.Or some and not have them go flat out competing. Just giving enough to be viable while homing them in the martial group.And yet my 4e Retroclone has the archivist mage, which is a genuine vancian caster. Agreed.If it can be ignored at the table, of course.</blockquote>

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