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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6730206" data-attributes="member: 87792">[Citation Needed]The 4e Warlord doesn't come close to having healing as powerful and prevalent as a cleric. The 4e Warlord has spike hit point recovery - with the strongest inspiring warlords having about as much healing as fairly healing-light clerics.So as you are claiming that what's being demanded is something that's never happened in the past I'm going to assume you have misunderstood.Indeed. One of the things I find most aggravating about 5e worldbuilding is how spells seem to be the base unit of most magic. It's the spells part that drives people up the wall because spells are an explicit form of magic, and if there is magic involved they are completely the wrong one.I've yet to see the warlord fan argue against the larger-than-life borderline magic interpretation (such as the one you reached with Tony Vargas). Just against spellcasting. Sorry you're bored, but if your talking a "Default D&D" warlord, it has to mesh with the "Default D&D" universe. Else, you're just designing some 3PP d20 variant class. (Which is fine, but color me disinterested). [Citation Needed]I have the 4e PHB in front of me. And it says precisely the opposite. Short rests are explicitly what recharge encounter powers. Page 15 says "... you have to rest a few minutes between each use". Page 54 says "You need to take a short rest (page 263) before you can use one again." Those are the only two references in the index to encounter powers. Page 263 is the page on rests and is very explicit that a short or extended rest is what allows you to renew encounter powers.There is nothing in the PHB on encounter powers that means that they have anything at all to do with initiative (with a few rare exceptions that are triggered by rolling initiative). You recharge them by taking a short rest of about five minutes to catch your breath and bandage wounds. And if you are denied that short rest (as I occasionally do when DMing) you don't get to recharge your powers.You apparently misunderstand the 4e power system at a fundamental level. Which doesn't mean either that they are remotely equal in terms of weight or that their translation is equal.Vicious Mockery practically defined many 4e bards. The ability to insult enemies out of the fight, and the ability to be witty and annoying and have it mechanically relevant. That it was an at will was important. And the 5e version of Vicious Mockery gets just about everything right.Thunderwave was mostly something wizards did. An uncontrolled burst of energy to throw enemies away that was the fallback when they had nothing better to use. Focus your energy-boom-throw. The movement and the thunder were more important than the damage - and the fact it was so simple that you didn't have to concentrate much (so it was at will) was important too. But it was far from character defining. And was translated, rather than as a cantrip, as a first level spell. Meaning it isn't approached at all the same way now. It's a bad translation of a minor trinket rather than a good translation of something that literally allowed certain types of character to work.1: It actually doesn't take that much if we assume that the other non-magical classes are viable.2: Non-magical cleric is far from the only thing a Warlord would bring. Warlords have never done things the same way as clerics and there's no reason they should start. They just need a couple of abilities that overlap with the cleric set enough you don't need a cleric.But it does both. There's low magic - and there's games that are actually inspired by D&D's source material where almost all the spellcasters are the BBEGs. The warlord opens up the latter to work in D&D.Not 0-9, partly because I haven't gone beyond heroic tier. And 9th level spells are basically plot devices.I.e. frequently. Which is good. There's a difference between magic and spells and D&D is very bad for confusing the two.</blockquote>

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