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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Giltonio_Santos" data-source="post: 4017835" data-attributes="member: 36874">I see your point, and for me it's a solid one, but I just don't agree that the gamist mechanics are simply a good thing to the game. If they're adding in one session of the game, they may be just removing from another.As a DM who likes to tinker a lot, I've used the 3E generic mechanics to create the most various settings for my campaigns. It's cool like the gamist approach really helps with that; generic balance is typically easier to work with.But I feel that the strength of generic robust rules is also the weakness of the system. The 3rd edition took some of D&D flavor from the rules, and it seems that 4E will take even more.Each time it becomes easier to make your own game, but flavor-wise, we lose something that is all about D&D flavor. Someone who sees the rules just as the set of tools to create the setting would get a lot more from GURPS; the thing about D&D is that the rules communicate something about what you're playing.I believe this is the reason why L5R fans hated the d20 version and Alderac ended up returning to the system they had once built to be a slave of the story needs.A D&D example I see is that of the saving throws. Fortitude, Reflexes and Will runs so smooth and is so generic that anyone can easily grab the concept and use it without problem. That's fine, but saving vs. death magic or vs. breath weapon screams fantasy in a way that no description of a fortitude saving throw made by your DM, no matter how rich, can emulate.Maybe the Warlord and the Dragonborn will be a blast to play, maybe they're everything we always needed in a matter of gamist needs, but the bard (or any other class left out of the first PHB, for the purpose of this reasoning) and the gnome had a story in this game. I have some friends who love D&D but are not following 4E news, and I know that at least one of them will find it just weird to look through the new PHB and find a favorite missing: "What kind of D&D is this? No bards/druids/gnomes?"Improving the game is good, but I think D&D has some important roots that help us differ any fantasy from D&D fantasy, and tinkering with them to make a better (if less flavorful) game should be done with a lot of care.Cheers,</blockquote>

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