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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 4018557" data-attributes="member: 1757">There's also Draupnir, or the Ring of the Nibelungs, or the entire Norse poetic construct of the "ring-giver," an individual of great status/power.But your argument doesn't make sense either given or absent all of that. If everything in D&D needs to obey a fantasy trope that "the man on the street" knows and understands, then we can eliminate... well, anything that's original to D&D that wouldn't immediately be familiar to the layman. How many people know what a mind flayer is? (Outside the people I currently game with, I can count *one* friend who'd know.) Or an aboleth? (Zero of my friends outside my gaming group.) Or a yugoloth? But all of these things are part of D&D's "mythology." Adding things to the mythology or changing them (such as, for example, "magic rings are only usable by those with the great power needed to master them") is a) hardly new to D&D (or are we forgetting that drow, aboleths, and numerous other common foes weren't around in OD&D or early AD&D, that entire character classes changed or were added to the gaming universe, and that we even introduced new kinds of magic items and new item rules and restrictions, including an entire magic item economy, over the editions?).As to the warlord: Again, I don't understand how this is "gamist" vs. "simulationist." You argue that adding a tactician turns the D&D PC party into a military unit; I'd suggest that a) this is already the case in a number of games, and pretty much guaranteed if the players are running an adventure like GDQ1-7, (Rtt)ToEE, or the like; and b) that warlord abilities are just as easily seen in a character like Aragorn (and the Fellowship is practically *the* iconic adventuring party) as like some Black Company officer. Furthermore, one can make this argument about any character class. Doesn't adding a monk turn the whole game into a cultural fusion experiment? Or adding a paladin turn it into Three Hearts and Three Lions? Both of those hypotheticals make as much sense as what you're suggesting.In short, I do think there are mechanics that are good for better play but simultaneously strain immersion in the fantasy world and/or suspension of disbelief. I just haven't seen anyone raise an actual example of one in this thread. (Hit points are one that have been around for the history of the game, but that's got nothing to do with 4e specifically.)</blockquote>

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