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Opinion: PoL and high tiers do not fit in the long run
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<blockquote data-quote="Dr. Strangemonkey" data-source="post: 4018321" data-attributes="member: 6533"><p>Well, I don't know how much I can help you here, since I'd guess that this edition of DnD doesn't have the central meaning or historical dynamic that you seem to be wanting. </p><p></p><p>The dragon thing isn't a theory, for instance, it is a specific repeating phenomena.</p><p></p><p>Dragons and adventurers don't exist to keep each other in check, it's just that they are two powerful actors who can act on each other or their interests and that they both can have a certain stake in the 'light' phenomena that also affects the world.</p><p></p><p>But I'll make two attempts:</p><p></p><p>First, I'm not convinced we've seen enough of the cosmology to make a strong opinion, but if I had to hazard a guess about the cosmological dynamic of the new game it's the following:</p><p></p><p>That creation is a constantly echoing act (Feywild and Shadowfell) defined by the tension between those forces which would constantly unmake/make it (the titans, primordials, elemental chaos, and Abyssals); those who would preserve and use it (the gods, the devils, and the Astral Dominions); and those who would warp it with their indifference and nihilism (the Far Realms and Aberrations). </p><p></p><p>Good and Evil are not of these forces, and none of these forces can be subtracted from the existence that is creation.</p><p></p><p>Good and Evil are, however, present across this great struggle and symphony. Those who have embraced either have the most agency. They hear the music best.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, it is that awareness that commitment to action that enabled the gods to best the primordials. Though they struggle between themselves over the essence of good and evil, they alone understand it truly.</p><p></p><p>Second, are you familiar with cyclical views of history? I'm not saying you have to believe or adopt them, but being familiar with them might help your acceptance of the new paradigm. </p><p></p><p>Aristotle's Politics contains the classic cyclical paradigm. Marx is certainly the most current cyclical paradigm, but it's also wed to an idea of progress that can be confusing. My personal favorite is Vico's which comes with a nice theory of epochs and loads of fun poeticalness.</p><p></p><p>Regardless, the basic principle is that the tactics any one power system uses to come to power bring with them the seeds of that power's destruction.</p><p></p><p>Third, if I were to posit an ultimate balancing agent on the accumulation of power within this setting beyond rarity it would be that each level of power brings with it its own indifference.</p><p></p><p>On the one hand we have low level heroes who know little of the great scope of the cosmos, and on the other we have gods who are great and powerful but ultimately distant and remote - able to grant spells and hear prayers but otherwise unwilling to interfere.</p><p></p><p>The first level fighter cannot possibly fight the dragon and the 12 level hero cannot be bothered to fight the Orc. Ultimately, the level of competition in this system is too high. Light would only totally drive the dark, or vice versa, if it could apply its talents to a host of problems it could overmatch utterly. Unfortunately, there are too many challenging threat for that to be an apporpriate use of any power's time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dr. Strangemonkey, post: 4018321, member: 6533"] Well, I don't know how much I can help you here, since I'd guess that this edition of DnD doesn't have the central meaning or historical dynamic that you seem to be wanting. The dragon thing isn't a theory, for instance, it is a specific repeating phenomena. Dragons and adventurers don't exist to keep each other in check, it's just that they are two powerful actors who can act on each other or their interests and that they both can have a certain stake in the 'light' phenomena that also affects the world. But I'll make two attempts: First, I'm not convinced we've seen enough of the cosmology to make a strong opinion, but if I had to hazard a guess about the cosmological dynamic of the new game it's the following: That creation is a constantly echoing act (Feywild and Shadowfell) defined by the tension between those forces which would constantly unmake/make it (the titans, primordials, elemental chaos, and Abyssals); those who would preserve and use it (the gods, the devils, and the Astral Dominions); and those who would warp it with their indifference and nihilism (the Far Realms and Aberrations). Good and Evil are not of these forces, and none of these forces can be subtracted from the existence that is creation. Good and Evil are, however, present across this great struggle and symphony. Those who have embraced either have the most agency. They hear the music best. Ultimately, it is that awareness that commitment to action that enabled the gods to best the primordials. Though they struggle between themselves over the essence of good and evil, they alone understand it truly. Second, are you familiar with cyclical views of history? I'm not saying you have to believe or adopt them, but being familiar with them might help your acceptance of the new paradigm. Aristotle's Politics contains the classic cyclical paradigm. Marx is certainly the most current cyclical paradigm, but it's also wed to an idea of progress that can be confusing. My personal favorite is Vico's which comes with a nice theory of epochs and loads of fun poeticalness. Regardless, the basic principle is that the tactics any one power system uses to come to power bring with them the seeds of that power's destruction. Third, if I were to posit an ultimate balancing agent on the accumulation of power within this setting beyond rarity it would be that each level of power brings with it its own indifference. On the one hand we have low level heroes who know little of the great scope of the cosmos, and on the other we have gods who are great and powerful but ultimately distant and remote - able to grant spells and hear prayers but otherwise unwilling to interfere. The first level fighter cannot possibly fight the dragon and the 12 level hero cannot be bothered to fight the Orc. Ultimately, the level of competition in this system is too high. Light would only totally drive the dark, or vice versa, if it could apply its talents to a host of problems it could overmatch utterly. Unfortunately, there are too many challenging threat for that to be an apporpriate use of any power's time. [/QUOTE]
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