Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Opinions on Pathfinder
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Windjammer" data-source="post: 5067290" data-attributes="member: 60075"><p>BryonD answered this well ("Mechanics should should be about capabilities and leave behavior to the players.") but I'd like to spell it out for everyone: a lot of the great things in 4E stat blocks is simply information that got shifted from accompanying background text into the stat block itself. I documented a striking example of this on this site <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/269740-wizards-coast-desperately-needs-learn-paizo-privateer-press-10.html#post5042605" target="_blank">not long ago</a>.</p><p></p><p>But since you brought up humanoids, I thought it pertinent to provide a supplementory example. Let's ask what differentiates gnolls from other humanoids like orcs. 4E designers told us that they don't differ (or at least, not enough) in editions pre-3E but now they do. I strongly suspect their answer highlights the gnoll's "Pack Attack" power in its statblock:</p><p></p><p>So basically what differentiates a gnoll from an orc in 4E is that one guy has Pack Attack and the other doesn't. Fair enough. </p><p></p><p>If you then compare this to the gnoll entry in the 3.5 MM (page 130) you see no such thing as "Pack Attack" crop up in the stat block. However, in the flavour text it says (emphasis mine),</p><p></p><p>And if you look up the enormous combat flavour that Paizo gave to gnolls in Classic Monsters Revisited (e.g. page 15 therein on horde tactics) you can see the shift in emphasis: information that previously (in 3E) belonged to "flavour text" was shifted to stat blocks in 4E.</p><p></p><p>So for me the following two things are actually false::</p><p></p><p>1. Humanoids had too little to differentiate each other in editions pre-4E.</p><p>2. Monster entries in the 4E MM are awefully short on flavour text.</p><p></p><p>As to 1.: I said why I deem it false already. </p><p>I also disagree with 2., since 4E monster statblocks tell a story of their own. I love those stories (the MM being my favourite 4e book), but I absolutely understand people who'd rather work with flavour text.</p><p></p><p>So the real debate is whether you want to codify monster tactics mechanically, or whether as a DM you simply make up mechanical repercussions for "horde tactics" and their ink on the fly - which gets us back to BryonD's point. I think it's a good point, but it really merited spelling out. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Windjammer, post: 5067290, member: 60075"] BryonD answered this well ("Mechanics should should be about capabilities and leave behavior to the players.") but I'd like to spell it out for everyone: a lot of the great things in 4E stat blocks is simply information that got shifted from accompanying background text into the stat block itself. I documented a striking example of this on this site [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/269740-wizards-coast-desperately-needs-learn-paizo-privateer-press-10.html#post5042605"]not long ago[/URL]. But since you brought up humanoids, I thought it pertinent to provide a supplementory example. Let's ask what differentiates gnolls from other humanoids like orcs. 4E designers told us that they don't differ (or at least, not enough) in editions pre-3E but now they do. I strongly suspect their answer highlights the gnoll's "Pack Attack" power in its statblock: So basically what differentiates a gnoll from an orc in 4E is that one guy has Pack Attack and the other doesn't. Fair enough. If you then compare this to the gnoll entry in the 3.5 MM (page 130) you see no such thing as "Pack Attack" crop up in the stat block. However, in the flavour text it says (emphasis mine), And if you look up the enormous combat flavour that Paizo gave to gnolls in Classic Monsters Revisited (e.g. page 15 therein on horde tactics) you can see the shift in emphasis: information that previously (in 3E) belonged to "flavour text" was shifted to stat blocks in 4E. So for me the following two things are actually false:: 1. Humanoids had too little to differentiate each other in editions pre-4E. 2. Monster entries in the 4E MM are awefully short on flavour text. As to 1.: I said why I deem it false already. I also disagree with 2., since 4E monster statblocks tell a story of their own. I love those stories (the MM being my favourite 4e book), but I absolutely understand people who'd rather work with flavour text. So the real debate is whether you want to codify monster tactics mechanically, or whether as a DM you simply make up mechanical repercussions for "horde tactics" and their ink on the fly - which gets us back to BryonD's point. I think it's a good point, but it really merited spelling out. :) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Opinions on Pathfinder
Top