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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 9728274" data-attributes="member: 83242"> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">These wings are the wrong shape. Notice how hummingbird wings are shaped. They are smooth and continuous on both edges, leading and trailing, so that they can slice through the air either way. The topaz wings are not, and would cause enormous turbulence if you tried to use them that way. That is what I am suggesting. A change in design and also a magical assist.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">These wings are not (comparatively) rigid. Hummingbird and insect wings are rigid airfoils. These are membranes. The membranes would curl and twist, and the "fingers" would whip through the air, amplifying the turbulence. They could be rigid though (if it is needed), either by mechanical design or magic, that is not an issue IMO. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The articulation and musculature is incorrect for this kind of flight. We would change the musculature obviously. I have never been talking about taking the design as is. The interesting thing is to take the idea and modify the design mechanically, magically, or culturally as needed.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hummingbird wings still point forward. They're just aerodynamic in more than one direction. These wings are only aerodynamic in one direction...the wrong one. But we would change that - that is the point and always has been!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hummingbirds achieve their VTOL style flight by flapping their wings incredibly fast. This is why they're so small and light relative even to other birds. Now, that doesn't mean a dragon couldn't also do that, but you'd have wings that look like a blur, not obvious flapping. They'd also need an extremely high-energy diet, waaaay more than what hummingbirds need. Yes - now your getting the idea, How crazy would the be to see a gargantuan dragon hovering around with a blur of wings. I find the energy argument and odd one as I would imagine it would be a slightly modified version of a haste spell and there is not to no energy requirements for that.</li> </ul>That is pretty much what I am talking about doing. How does everyone keep missing that point?! I am not talking about keep the design as is, but taking the concept and running with it.  I guess it might be that I say "tweaks" and perhaps my perspective on tweaks is more generous than others?What has got me interested is how we do it, not how it can't be down. In fact, all the reasons it "can't be done" are more inspiration for how to do it. Don't shackle yourself to what isn't possible. Let's expand our thinking and make the ludicrous possible. At least that is what I find interesting.</blockquote>

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