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<blockquote data-quote="Tellerve" data-source="post: 4722591" data-attributes="member: 2412">This is where it is getting too nitpicky with the definitions I fear.&nbsp; See is what they wrote, but you can &quot;see&quot; where the invisible guy is in the square.&nbsp; Would you not allow an AO for a human at dusk when a goblin moves by him?&nbsp; Of course you would, at least I hope you would.&nbsp; The goblin has partial concealment.&nbsp; The invisible goblin has total concealment but since he hasn't passed his stealth check you know what square he is in and where he was moving, and instead of the partial concealment of dusk, you take the total concealment of invisibility (-5).On your turn you don't need to make a minor action for the perception check.&nbsp; In fact, as long as the invisible enemy isn't trying to be stealthy then there is no need as you can clearly tell which square he is in by the rules in phb2.&nbsp; Using the minor perception would be if you loose him because he uses stealth on you and you loose which square he is in.&nbsp; Either way it is still -5 to hit him, so save your minor action.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tellerve, post: 4722591, member: 2412"] This is where it is getting too nitpicky with the definitions I fear. See is what they wrote, but you can "see" where the invisible guy is in the square. Would you not allow an AO for a human at dusk when a goblin moves by him? Of course you would, at least I hope you would. The goblin has partial concealment. The invisible goblin has total concealment but since he hasn't passed his stealth check you know what square he is in and where he was moving, and instead of the partial concealment of dusk, you take the total concealment of invisibility (-5). On your turn you don't need to make a minor action for the perception check. In fact, as long as the invisible enemy isn't trying to be stealthy then there is no need as you can clearly tell which square he is in by the rules in phb2. Using the minor perception would be if you loose him because he uses stealth on you and you loose which square he is in. Either way it is still -5 to hit him, so save your minor action. [/QUOTE]

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