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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sepulchrave II" data-source="post: 3205237" data-attributes="member: 4303">I want to talk about opposed caster level checks, first (OCLCs hereafter).I would like to propose a hierarchy, of sorts, for spells - based on their effectiveness at overcoming defenses or repelling attacks. It's one aspect (maybe the most important one) of the 'epic benefit' a spell receives. I'm going to call the order of epic seed power A, B, and C - imaginative, eh? A. Defeats/resists all effects except other special 'category A' effects automatically. It defeats other category A effects with an OCLC.B. Defeats/resists all nonepic effects automatically, defeats/resists epic effect with OCLCC. Defeats/resists most nonepic effects, requires OCLC to defeat key nonepic effects and epic effects.Category A EffectsI propose that we have 3 'category A' effects: esoteric [disjoin], the antimagic effect of [ward], and the pernicious aspects of [afflict] and [polymorph]. (I've changed my mind regarding epic antimagic; I think it should be invulnerable to [dispel])Unless these effects come into direct competition with each other, the conditions which they determine will automatically prevail, i.e.:[Disjoin] automatically ends all spell effects[Ward] (Antimagic) automatically suppresses all magical and supernatural effects[Afflict] cannot be brokenIf these effects are tested against one another, then their otherwise automatic precedence is resolved via an OCLC, i.e.:[Disjoin] can end a pernicious curse via an OCLC[Disjoin] can destroy an antimagic [ward] via an OCLCAn antimagic [ward] can suppress a pernicious curse via an OCLCIt might be worth thinking of it more in terms of a particular spell's power to resist, as well, because of the perspective it offers.Category 'B' EffectsI propose that, if possible, we move the baseline of all other seeds to category . I've been thinking about this a lot. The nonepic protection is automatically defeated; or the nonepic threat is automatically neutralized, e.g.:[Reveal] automatically defeats a mind blank, but requires an OCLC against an epic protection.[Delude] automatically foils nonepic means of penetrating it, but against [Reveal] it must succeed at an OCLC. Etc. Moving some effects to this baseline might mean tweaking a few things.E.g.:[Destroy] (as we have floated it) is a category C - it can only bring down a nonepic prismatic sphere with an OCLC. If we allowed [destroy] to automatically trump a prismatic sphere it would move to a category B. I would argue that this benefit merits another +4 increase kernelese: - "this seed automatically destroys all nonepic wards," or whatever.The power of the seed can be mitigated down, it's the baseline effect that I'm talking about here: an epic [destroy] can also use its 'destroy anything' effect as a reserve for factors; the same goes for many other seeds.Make sense? Whaddya think?</blockquote>

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