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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Talaeden_Denthiir" data-source="post: 6383541" data-attributes="member: 18257">These are excerpts taken from my posts on this thread over on the WotC Boards:<a href="http://community.wizards.com/comment/51246041" target="_blank">http://community.wizards.com/comment/51246041</a>Unfortunately, NOTHING is worth a, 2 level dip", in 5E, unless u want to give up an Ability Score increase or Feat.  Since stat increases/feats are CLASS based and NOT Level based, u forfeit one if you don't at least multiclass for 4 levels.  This not only gimps MCing mechanically but, RPing wise as well.  So does what u gt for multiclassing and the unfairness of some classes needing two prereqs and others not.   Case in point, one of my players came up with an awesome idea to have a character that was orphaned and grew up on the streets of a major city.  She resorted to thievery to survive and by level 2 Rog, was kicked out of the city into the wilderness.  In the wilds, alone again and abandoned, a wise old grand master monk found her, took her in, and trained her in the ways of the monk (Rog2/Mnk18).   Unfortunately, the mechanics gimp and punish the RP.  With two levels of Rog, instead of 4, she loses 1 stat bump/feat.  Also, she needs not just Dex but Wis to MC into monk.  RP wise though, it makes since for her to have a lower Wis, UNTIL she encounters the Grand Master to teach her Wis.     So, she's better off starting as a monk to not have MC stat restrictions, get better MC with taking Rogue at level 2 for extra skill and thieves tools, then 3 more levels of Rogue to get a total of 5 stat boosts/feats, then go back to Monk the rest of the way which makes absolutely NO RP sense at all!   And they say the last edition didn't support RP!  This edition out right restricts it unless you like being punished for Good RP!  Too make matters worse, this player is my wife and was finally interesed in playing D&D again after a long hiatus and bam!  "Sorry honey, although the RAW lets u start off as a Rog2 to multiclass into Monk the rest of the way, ur gonna be severely gimped if u do."  It's like the RAW is prejudiced against' non pure single classed characters'. p.s. - this msg was sent from my iPhone, so plz excuse any spelling/gramatical errors.p.p.s. - in general I Love 5E.Mellored Wrote: Talaeden_Denthiir wrote:Unfortunately, NOTHING is worth a, 2 level dip", in 5E, unless u want to give up an Ability Score increase or Feat.You don't need 20 in a stat, and many features are better then feats. Monks are an exception.  They rely more on stats (paticularly Dex) then most other classes.  Though only going in 2 levels still (eventially) leaves you with all your stat bumps. Also, starting as rogue gives you more skills then MC into rogue. I agree with u on the starting out as rogue gives more skillz.  The issue is she needs at least a Wis 13 to multiclass into Monk.  If all classes are relatively balanced, why is Ftr Str OR Dex, Mnk Dex AND Wis, Pal Str AND Cha, Rgr Dex AND Wis, and all other classes are just one Stat?   Ftr being 'either/or' implies it's easier to MC into.   Mnk, Pal, Rgr being 'and' implies it's harder to MC into those classes. As to your 1st reply.  I would argue that's stats are MORE important now.  Especially with bounded accuracy.  A +1 means a whole lot more.  Heck, Mearls and company even said they wanted to go back to ability scores being more important again.  Thus, saves being keyed to ability scores, etc. I just feel that having ability score boosts being tied to level and giving the Ftr and Rog bonus boosts would've came to the same conclusion without gimping the MC rules. I.E., if Fighters get bonus stat boosts at levels 6 and 14 and Rogues at level 10, give everyone based on level boosts at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19, then give Fighters class bonus boosts at levels 6 and 14 and Rogues at level 10.And don't tell me it's a, "balance issue", cuz' spellcasters don't get nerfed.  Heck, there is even a whole chart on page 165 of the PHB, to make sure they don't get nerfed.The figters and rogues still get ability score bonuses and the MC'ers don't get nerfed.  Win - Win!</blockquote>

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