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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9697146" data-attributes="member: 93670">I want poke at that "establish silence" comment before I get to the rest of the post. That seems like you are suggesting that you interpreted my post as suggesting session zero should be a do now for all things or else the gm just needs to silently accept it when it was a post saying that session zero is pushed too hard to the point where it has unrealistic expectations placed on the gm and an unreasonably low bar granted to players. Those unrealistic expectations happen in both directions because the community so often so quickly throws session zero out as some kind of divinely blessed solution for all issues unless the gm failed by not being enough of a diviner to predict a specific thing. I think that bold bit is where the disconnect starts forming.  Session zero has evolved into this unholy abomination where the players can bring up anything they want to bring up while the gm needs to should or is supposed to bring up an ever expanding list of ground rules. Saying use session zero is why we have stuff like the eleven page six thousand word session zero checklist mentioned in Seth's video.[MEDIA=reddit]dndnext/comments/601awb[/MEDIA]I'm not even going to check if the optimization level expectations is on there but it shows how unreasonable it is for "use session zero for this" sentiments pushing GM's into an expected role that needs to function as diviners while players are allowed the option of being passive spectators and duplicitous participants in session zero.  Ultiyit  just enshrines 'well you should have/never bought that up in session zero -> yea he's right" stonewall should the GM bring up issues that develop or get demonstrated later.  If optimization levtis an any time discussion then it's impossible for that discussion to also be a good  example of why session zero exists.  Reflexively checking issues out from a thing reasonable for ongoing discussion as the game develops through the glass∆ onto session zero along with the other Divination Master responsibilities just adds one more item to the above 11 page six thousand word session zero checklist mentioned in Seth's video and strengthens the case for a player being called out when they get grumpy about it not being covered in session zero.∆ <a href="https://youtu.be/QTosT14SWhs?si=fwD7AwkBMD_fuxY2" target="_blank">it's a hockey thing</a>.edit: fixed link</blockquote>

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