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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9692189" data-attributes="member: 18">No, but I think you're in danger of going that way if we say &quot;Oh that's why people do it and it's totally legit to use optimizer as a generic pejorative because of that&quot;. You didn't reach that point AFAIK. That's why I said &quot;Let's not&quot; rather than &quot;You are&quot;.It would be ahistorical though to pretend* that at that time, &quot;optimizer&quot; meant the same thing as &quot;munchkin&quot; or that an &quot;optimized PC&quot; meant the same thing as a &quot;broken or game-breaking PC&quot;, that's my point. Most of 3E and 4E's CharOp on various forums (including here!) wasn't even close to game-breaking. I do remember that particular forum as being obnoxious, but IIRC it also didn't last very long.Also that's one forum from well over 20 years ago (sorry, it's been that long) - I don't think it really explains suddenly deciding, in 2025, to redefine &quot;optimizer&quot; as essentially the same as &quot;munchkin&quot;. As I've said, at best it's unhelpful.* = for clarity, I'm not saying you are doing this, I'm just saying it would be.Munchkins would probably enjoy playing in a Monty Haul game, though they would likely end up involved in PvP (which is certainly how a lot of Monty Haul games I heard about ended, to be sure!), but yeah the two concepts exist separately.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9692189, member: 18"] No, but I think you're [I]in danger[/I] of going that way if we say "Oh that's why people do it and it's totally legit to use optimizer as a generic pejorative because of that". You didn't reach that point AFAIK. That's why I said "Let's not" rather than "You are". It would be ahistorical though to pretend* that at that time, "optimizer" meant the same thing as "munchkin" or that an "optimized PC" meant the same thing as a "broken or game-breaking PC", that's my point. Most of 3E and 4E's CharOp on various forums (including here!) wasn't even close to game-breaking. I do remember that particular forum as being obnoxious, but IIRC it also didn't last very long. Also that's one forum from well over 20 years ago (sorry, it's been that long) - I don't think it really explains suddenly deciding, in 2025, to redefine "optimizer" as essentially the same as "munchkin". As I've said, at best it's unhelpful. * = for clarity, I'm not saying you are doing this, I'm just saying it would be. Munchkins would probably enjoy playing in a Monty Haul game, though they would likely end up involved in PvP (which is certainly how a lot of Monty Haul games I heard about ended, to be sure!), but yeah the two concepts exist separately. [/QUOTE]

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