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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 9693812" data-attributes="member: 20564">This is thoughtful, let me try to respond in kind.Let me talk about poker for a second.  A big facet of poker is probability.  But another big facet is psychology - reading opponents, bluffing them that your hand is stronger or your hand is weaker, convincing them to bet more when you will win, convincing them to fold when you aren't sure you can.However, if you've ever played poker for fake stakes, like chips with no value outside the game, you might have encountered the player that's not there to win.  Regardless if they are just listless, or chaotic, or whatever, they play in such a way that invalidates that second facet of the game.  Which ruins it for other players.Now, we all know the G in RPG stands for game.  Some games like D&D are very much about character success because the most common stakes for overcoming challenges is death, which isn't fun when it's the characters dying.  Other games may not be like that, let me stick to D&D-type games for a moment since that's where this discussion seems most centered.  We wouldn't have having this discussion in a game like Marvel Heroic Roleplay where characters are not expected to be balanced against each other and the system handles it just fine.To optimize is to make effective use of resources, situation, and opportunities.  I just quoted the definition from a dictionary in my last post.To be on the "dislike-XYZ" axis, that means that they actively do not want to do those things.  They actively want their characters to fail.And much like the poker example, that ruins the fun for the other players as well.So what we have left is people who have no passion for play or are just here for the chaos -- neutral XYZ in your terms -- and people who want their characters to succeed.  And here we have the spectrum from mild to extreme.Frankly, I try not to play with those who don't care about the outcome, but I understand that's not always everyone's preference, like a friend or family member or significant other who needs be included for non-game reasons.So the question is "is everyone close enough to each other on the spectrum of wanting to play well mechanically that everyone has fun"?</blockquote>

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