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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9693944" data-attributes="member: 6684958">Sure there are very few optimizers that do it for good complex reasons.&nbsp; The bulk are jerks, or worse.&nbsp; Optimization is fuel for egos.&nbsp; The player is just thinking about themselves and specificity is not thinking about others.&nbsp; They must.Other then the few good ones, all optimizers are doing it to disrupt or even wreck a game.&nbsp; It seems obvious, as the whole reason optimizers even have a bad name is that they are always jerks at the table.&nbsp; They bully players, belittle players, hog the spotlight and worse.&nbsp; Nearly all optimizers go out of their way to be jerks.&nbsp; And the great example here is the 'average' optimizer might say &quot;gosh my character is so much better then all the other PCs, I kind of feel bad for being so awesome, what can I do?&quot;.&nbsp; And when told, &quot;um, just don't optimize&quot;, they react with vile anger and say they &quot;must optimize&quot; and &quot;must make the most powerful character&quot; because their twisted jerk ego says so.....Ask the player if they would ever consider ever playing a wizard character with a low intelligence and low spellcasting ability......when they shout &quot;NO&quot;, you know they are an optimizing problem player.They resit the idea and don't want to do it.&nbsp; They also look for another game.Not far, as it does not take much to disrupt most games.Though this is a bigger game and DM problem.&nbsp; I lot of DMs are Bubby DMS, or as they would say &quot;fans of the players and PCs&quot; and they bend over backwards to make the game very easy.&nbsp; They start with things like maximum hit points and bonus hit points.&nbsp; Then they double down by being a passive easy DM.&nbsp; It is most obvious in fights where such a DM does not even try to hurt, harm or kill the characters.&nbsp; The DM will flat out say they don't kill PCs in their game often enough.&nbsp; They just want combat to be a fun romp, much like the typical combat you see in any movie or TV show.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9693944, member: 6684958"] Sure there are very few optimizers that do it for good complex reasons. The bulk are jerks, or worse. Optimization is fuel for egos. The player is just thinking about themselves and specificity is not thinking about others. They must. Other then the few good ones, all optimizers are doing it to disrupt or even wreck a game. It seems obvious, as the whole reason optimizers even have a bad name is that they are always jerks at the table. They bully players, belittle players, hog the spotlight and worse. Nearly all optimizers go out of their way to be jerks. And the great example here is the 'average' optimizer might say "gosh my character is so much better then all the other PCs, I kind of feel bad for being so awesome, what can I do?". And when told, "um, just don't optimize", they react with vile anger and say they "must optimize" and "must make the most powerful character" because their twisted jerk ego says so..... Ask the player if they would ever consider ever playing a wizard character with a low intelligence and low spellcasting ability......when they shout "NO", you know they are an optimizing problem player. They resit the idea and don't want to do it. They also look for another game. Not far, as it does not take much to disrupt most games. Though this is a bigger game and DM problem. I lot of DMs are Bubby DMS, or as they would say "fans of the players and PCs" and they bend over backwards to make the game very easy. They start with things like maximum hit points and bonus hit points. Then they double down by being a passive easy DM. It is most obvious in fights where such a DM does not even try to hurt, harm or kill the characters. The DM will flat out say they don't kill PCs in their game often enough. They just want combat to be a fun romp, much like the typical combat you see in any movie or TV show. [/QUOTE]

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