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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 6056944" data-attributes="member: 22424">They're two different axes that measure two different things. You can have optimisers who roleplay well, optimisers who roleplay poorly, non-optimisers who roleplay well, and non-optimisers who roleplay poorly. The one appears to have very little correlation with the other either way.My objection to the obsessive optimisers is this:3e is my favourite edition to date by a long way (the jury is still out on 5e). It's also the only edition I am willing to run, or that I really have any interest in playing - the idiosyncrasies of the older editions would quickly drive me insane, while my opinion of 4e is not favourable (to put it mildly). (And other games have their own issues; they're just not so widely publicised.)However, 3e has some fundamental and systematic problems - issues that go so deep that they can't be fixed just by patching the system. For the most part, that's fine; I'm content to just get on and play, avoid the troublesome areas as much as I can, and have fun with that.For the optimisers, though, the entire goal is to eke out as much from the system as they possibly can. That means pushing the system to its limits - they're deliberately going for those areas of the system that are problematic. Effectively, they take a huge spotlight, and shine it brightly on the bits of the game are broken.The consequence of their actions is that I end up ever more disillusioned with the game, and with no better alternative available. Their fun essentially depends on poisoning the well for me.</blockquote>

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