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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CroBob" data-source="post: 6057453" data-attributes="member: 6683307">I already have enough evidence to determine that optimizing does not require you to be a jerk or otherwise a bad player. I'm not trying to determine what the ratio of good players to bad players is, or something. I understand that optimizers can be irritating or jerky players, and those guys aren't fun to play with. Just like any other kind of game jerk.No, there's definitely a strong relationship between those two things, because optimizers optimize, while munchkins also optimize. The difference is that munchkins are selfish and care more about their own fun than the whole group's fun. It'd be like determining if there's a relationship between rifle owners and RNA members. Of course there's a coloration! Both groups have something in common and therefore have overlap, except you don't need to own a rifle to join the NRA, while munchkins do need to optimize in order to be munchkins! My point is only that optimizing doesn't cause munchkinism, but rather the opposite.RPGs are fun, and plenty of players have character ideas really frequently. It's not like they sit back and say to themselves "Woah, fella, I'm not playing right now, so there's no need for imagining what kind of character would be fun to play!". Yeah, maybe it's a waste of time, but so what? Most hobbies are a waste of time, excepting that people find them fun. This whole hobby is a waste of time. So what? It's fun.Sure, I don't see why the game should encourage either considering character options you're not actually using or campaign details that will never see any game time, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with those things or that they should be discouraged. I don't think discouraging being imaginative or thinking about your hobbies when you're not actively taking part in them should ever be done.</blockquote>

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