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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mengu" data-source="post: 5497636" data-attributes="member: 65726">If we're giving numbers, we need to take into account, a level 2 party can be facing a level 4 encounter. It's supposed to be a difficult encounter, but they need to be able to handle it. Honestly, if they are clumped together in a hallway and the archers gain surprise or initiative on them, a level 2 party will likely be toast. 3 out of 5 attacks would hit, dealing 3d10+18 (34.5) damage per PC. At level 2, even if one or two PC's survive, they won't be able to come back from that alpha strike.As a matter of fact, a level 1 party of 6 may face 5 orc archers, and it would be a level 2 encounter (just below the budget of level 3). If you look at the budget, they should be able to handle it. If you look at the individual threats, their levels are allowed to be up to 3 levels above party level for a standard encounter, up to 5 levels for a hard encounter, so level 4 orcs look acceptable. If you look at reality, it's near certain TPK.It's unwise to make such an encounter. MM3 damage needs to be watched carefully at low levels.The orc archers follow the MM3 guidelines, and at level 4 or higher, they are certainly an appropriate foe, but that's not enough information for the full picture. They really need to make new encounter building guidelines post MM3. The original DMG guidelines are way outdated.</blockquote>