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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 3647415" data-attributes="member: 2205">Actually, I'd argue that back when it was still fairy tales and folklore, the goblin better represents that better than the orc.  Monsters were sneaky little fey creatures; scary, but not some kind of weird savage attacking thing.  That role was reserved for human groups like the Huns or the Vikings.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />The orcs primacy is completely based on Tolkien, who coined the word in the first place by adapting some old English to give it to us.  Does Fritz Leiber have anything like orcs?  No.  Does Robert E. Howard?  Not really, unless you want to call his man-apes an analog.  How about Lovecraft or Clark Ashton Smith, or Edgar Rice Burroughs, or any of the other "early" fantasy writers?No, no, no and no.  Orcs are a Tolkien thing.  Pretending (or believing) that Tolkien-style fantasy is the only fantasy worthy of the name is short-sighted, IMO.  My campaign settings these days bear little resemblance to Tolkien.  Much less than D&D standard, even.  It's refreshing to step outside of Tolkien's sphere of influence and see all this stuff that was written before him, actually, but which has somewhat been forgotten and it's influence submerged and made very subtle.I sometimes describe my campaign setting du jour as a combination of Sergio Leone, Edgar Rice Burroughs' Barsoom, Charles Dickens and H. P. Lovecraft with plots that feel like early Robert Ludlum novels heavily steeped in occult.  And frankly, after years and years and years of weak tea wannabe Tolkien clones, I'm having tons of fun stretching out in directions like that.</blockquote>

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