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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8619523" data-attributes="member: 18">I think what you're not factoring in is that killing someone's PC, likely at a level and in a way that is permanent and cannot be raised from (given they've fallen an indefinite distance, and their body presumably then rolled down a snowy mountain or w/e), is a serious business for a lot of DMs and players.Yeah, you can sneer at the plot hole guy (even though he is technically correct, the best kind of correct, that is a genuine plot hole - so rarely the case when people say "plot hole"), because that's just a movie, and it's just about how a character got here. There's zero consequence.Whereas you're perma-killing someone's PC.If you're not running some sort of "death-funnel" game like DCC or just some absolutely murderous old-skool game (including 1E, maybe 2E), you need to kill PCs right. You can't just hand-wave it. It's a serious business. You're failing to consider the actual context, and just treating it as a logic issue. That's why you're getting it outright wrong, imho. In 4E particularly, there's an expectation that any death will be done right, because the combat and damage are exceptionally fair.Also, 4E does not have death from massive damage. So to die from the fall, you need to take not 100% of your HP, but over 150% of your HP in damage (assuming you were on full health - you have to go over negative 50%). If the damage would be anything less than 150% of your HP, you'll be making Death Saves. And if that's the case, you definitely need to know how far you fell, and to where, so people can work out how to get to you, or if you recover, you can work out how to get to them. Particularly this could be the case if you have any way to slow your fall or lessen fall damage - Featherfall being an obvious one.When I initially read this I thought it might be a non-issue, but in 4E especially, it really is not a non-issue.Also, talking of 4E, does this push even conform to the rules? When you get pushed off the edge, you're supposed to get a saving throw to end up prone instead of falling - I forget if it's Death or Reflex, but one or the other. So if the text here indicates people being pushed off insta-die that's pretty bad (I don't know the adventure so can't say, but I've seen rules misunderstandings or forgettings much worse than that in official adventures).</blockquote>

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