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<blockquote data-quote="irishfast" data-source="post: 2839369" data-attributes="member: 40543">ya know, what you overlook is, even if orcs don't have ranks in move silently or hide, they can still make a roll to attempt it.&nbsp; further, even dumb animals use terrain to their advantage, as i'm sure orcs would, which could further modify their hide/move silently rolls.&nbsp; also, each 10 ft of distance adds +1 to the DC of the listen check for the commoners, and if they are distracted, say by sleep, looking longingly at the light and music from the inn, talking to someone else, that's another +5 to the listen check DC.also, who needs a hide check in darkness?&nbsp; darkness provides concealment, and under the hide rules, &quot;[t]otal cover or concealment usually...obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.&quot;&nbsp; total darkness is total concealment, and at the edges of torchlight (40-20 ft away) and laterns (60-30 ft away), creatures have a 20% miss chance and can make a hide check...&nbsp; though by this time, the orcs are probably about to charge, so who really cares about shadowy illumination?like several posters above have mentioned, orcs, while dumb, are not retarded.&nbsp; a band of orcs will likely wait until night to attack, then a warband will sneak (half move, does not provide a negative modifier to their move silently DC) up to the edge of the sentry's illumination, then charge.your village is toast.again, just remember, you don't need ranks in move silently or hide to make a roll for it.&nbsp; too often people forget that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="irishfast, post: 2839369, member: 40543"] ya know, what you overlook is, even if orcs don't have ranks in move silently or hide, they can still make a roll to attempt it. further, even dumb animals use terrain to their advantage, as i'm sure orcs would, which could further modify their hide/move silently rolls. also, each 10 ft of distance adds +1 to the DC of the listen check for the commoners, and if they are distracted, say by sleep, looking longingly at the light and music from the inn, talking to someone else, that's another +5 to the listen check DC. also, who needs a hide check in darkness? darkness provides concealment, and under the hide rules, "[t]otal cover or concealment usually...obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway." total darkness is total concealment, and at the edges of torchlight (40-20 ft away) and laterns (60-30 ft away), creatures have a 20% miss chance and can make a hide check... though by this time, the orcs are probably about to charge, so who really cares about shadowy illumination? like several posters above have mentioned, orcs, while dumb, are not retarded. a band of orcs will likely wait until night to attack, then a warband will sneak (half move, does not provide a negative modifier to their move silently DC) up to the edge of the sentry's illumination, then charge. your village is toast. again, just remember, you don't need ranks in move silently or hide to make a roll for it. too often people forget that. [/QUOTE]

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