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<blockquote data-quote="charcoalninja" data-source="post: 7679692" data-attributes="member: 68710"><p>I get that he's a big bad, and that he'll have an army of undead around him, and that narratively you'll have to get through the entire army in order to face off with him at all. That is all true, and all very noteworthy and great, but that doesn't change the fact that the moment the party can engage him in any real way, he'll crumple. His abilities are all right, especially the creating undead and his wand's creating undead and his boosting necrotic damage (now if only he could cast inflict wounds or blight...) but the big issue is that a 20 AC is nothing to a high level party, and it will be trivial for the players to deal 405 hp damage to take him out.</p><p></p><p>Many, many groups are going to have the players fight there way to Orcus a climactic conflict the entire campaign will build up to... only to have him die in a round or two as the archers and a Barbarian Charge savage his piddly HP. That makes a terribly inappropriate fight. His HP should be doubled so that he actually HAS enough time to use any of his abilities and to actually put the party on the ropes. I'd be surprised if a battle with Orcus lasts past the 3rd round personally. Especially if the party is prepared to deal with undead (which they should be). </p><p></p><p>Overall I've been very disappointed with the monsters this edition because they're simplistic and soft. It seems they over reacted to both 3.P and 4th edition criticisms in that they removed the complexity and book keeping of 3.5s myriad list of spell likes and abilities (at least paired it down) and 4es tactical combat, but also gutted monster HP to prevent the solo grind of early 4e play. Leaving us with legions of low hp monsters with little abilities other than to deal hp damage. Go through the MM sometime and take a look at just how few monsters do anything other than simply deal damage. Now of those monsters that can do something else, count how many are spellcasters.</p><p></p><p>As a huge 4e fan, the change in monster direction has been very disappointing and I know it's a big problem for me in adopting the switch over to this edition (I am running a 5e game for friends, but I've simply converted all my 4e monsters because they're actually interesting). There's a lot I do like in 5e (or I wouldn't be posting about it) but big bad boss monsters that are this weak is a legit concern that I wanted to voice.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="charcoalninja, post: 7679692, member: 68710"] I get that he's a big bad, and that he'll have an army of undead around him, and that narratively you'll have to get through the entire army in order to face off with him at all. That is all true, and all very noteworthy and great, but that doesn't change the fact that the moment the party can engage him in any real way, he'll crumple. His abilities are all right, especially the creating undead and his wand's creating undead and his boosting necrotic damage (now if only he could cast inflict wounds or blight...) but the big issue is that a 20 AC is nothing to a high level party, and it will be trivial for the players to deal 405 hp damage to take him out. Many, many groups are going to have the players fight there way to Orcus a climactic conflict the entire campaign will build up to... only to have him die in a round or two as the archers and a Barbarian Charge savage his piddly HP. That makes a terribly inappropriate fight. His HP should be doubled so that he actually HAS enough time to use any of his abilities and to actually put the party on the ropes. I'd be surprised if a battle with Orcus lasts past the 3rd round personally. Especially if the party is prepared to deal with undead (which they should be). Overall I've been very disappointed with the monsters this edition because they're simplistic and soft. It seems they over reacted to both 3.P and 4th edition criticisms in that they removed the complexity and book keeping of 3.5s myriad list of spell likes and abilities (at least paired it down) and 4es tactical combat, but also gutted monster HP to prevent the solo grind of early 4e play. Leaving us with legions of low hp monsters with little abilities other than to deal hp damage. Go through the MM sometime and take a look at just how few monsters do anything other than simply deal damage. Now of those monsters that can do something else, count how many are spellcasters. As a huge 4e fan, the change in monster direction has been very disappointing and I know it's a big problem for me in adopting the switch over to this edition (I am running a 5e game for friends, but I've simply converted all my 4e monsters because they're actually interesting). There's a lot I do like in 5e (or I wouldn't be posting about it) but big bad boss monsters that are this weak is a legit concern that I wanted to voice. [/QUOTE]
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