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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7679701" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>"Engaging in a real way" =/= him standing there in an arena for a full resource party to attack. To be honest, I don't personally know anyone who plays in that style. I'm sure some do, and that's fine, but you can't complain about an aspect of the game if you're playing in a style that the game isn't designed for. I haven't seen his encounter description yet, but I'd bet my still shrinkwrapped box of Holmes Basic that he is not in an area where a party can just walk in and fight him arena style.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's also a fight that I'm betting never actually happens, so I think your criticisms are based on scenarios that won't exist. For example, I have serious doubts a barbarian can get to him in one round on a charge when he's dealing with things like a vampire spawn grappling him, or summoned wolves (by vampires) knocking him prone, or by normal attacks of all the rest of the undead anyway. And if that barbarian makes it through that gauntlet of undead and still survives? All Orcus has to do is say "die" and he's dead thanks to Power Word Kill, since I'm also betting that said barbarian making it through that horde would have taken some serious damage in doing so. Uber archers? All it takes is highly maneuverable undead like wraiths to engage them in melee, and suddenly attacking with a bow with a wraith hanging on you isn't the smartest thing. Or maybe he has a mummy lord or two there, and the entire party suddenly finds themselves making saving throw after saving throw just to not be incapacitated.</p><p></p><p>But really, it comes down to I think you're not really giving enough credit to the environment and his other abilities like summoning, because between the two, I have a really hard time even thinking your scenario is even possible unless the DM specifically plays arena style. Therefore, I think the complaints about him being too weak are overblown.</p><p></p><p>*edit* Shoot. I bet I just gave away my tactics to my players when we play this campaign....<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> (assuming they don't decided to join the demons and kill Drizzt because we're so sick and tired of that Mary Sue lol)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7679701, member: 15700"] "Engaging in a real way" =/= him standing there in an arena for a full resource party to attack. To be honest, I don't personally know anyone who plays in that style. I'm sure some do, and that's fine, but you can't complain about an aspect of the game if you're playing in a style that the game isn't designed for. I haven't seen his encounter description yet, but I'd bet my still shrinkwrapped box of Holmes Basic that he is not in an area where a party can just walk in and fight him arena style. It's also a fight that I'm betting never actually happens, so I think your criticisms are based on scenarios that won't exist. For example, I have serious doubts a barbarian can get to him in one round on a charge when he's dealing with things like a vampire spawn grappling him, or summoned wolves (by vampires) knocking him prone, or by normal attacks of all the rest of the undead anyway. And if that barbarian makes it through that gauntlet of undead and still survives? All Orcus has to do is say "die" and he's dead thanks to Power Word Kill, since I'm also betting that said barbarian making it through that horde would have taken some serious damage in doing so. Uber archers? All it takes is highly maneuverable undead like wraiths to engage them in melee, and suddenly attacking with a bow with a wraith hanging on you isn't the smartest thing. Or maybe he has a mummy lord or two there, and the entire party suddenly finds themselves making saving throw after saving throw just to not be incapacitated. But really, it comes down to I think you're not really giving enough credit to the environment and his other abilities like summoning, because between the two, I have a really hard time even thinking your scenario is even possible unless the DM specifically plays arena style. Therefore, I think the complaints about him being too weak are overblown. *edit* Shoot. I bet I just gave away my tactics to my players when we play this campaign....;) (assuming they don't decided to join the demons and kill Drizzt because we're so sick and tired of that Mary Sue lol) [/QUOTE]
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