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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mouseferatu" data-source="post: 7444512" data-attributes="member: 1288">So, I agree that Demogorgon's stat block is a bit weak for the Prince of Demons. (I'm particularly irked that he doesn't get two turns in a round, like he used to in some prior editions.) And the whole "summon 500 hp of undead once/day" thing throws everything out of whack.However, if Demogorgon can deal with those undead--perhaps with a horde of his own--things aren't so heavily weighted toward Orcus as it looks. There's very little he can do to Demogorgon without getting inside Demo's range. Any time he tries to make hit and run attacks, Demogorgon can ready actions to strike when Orcus is near.And if it comes down to trading blows? Orcus is screwed.He either looks at Demogorgon, in which case Demo's going to hit him with a gaze attack every round--probably multiple ones--to burn through that Legendary Resistance; or he doesn't, in which case he has disadvantage on every attack he makes, while granting Demogorgon advantage. (Fighting a foe you can't see is rough.)Now, yes, Demogorgon is taking damage every round. Some of those attacks are going to land even with disadvantage, and Orcus has a few nasty legendary options. But he's hitting a lot more often, too, because he has advantage as long as Orcus can't see him. He's thus likely doing a lot more damage.And if Orcus does look at him, if Demogorgon can goad Orcus into burning all of his Legendary Resistance, that's probably game over.Because feeblemind is an Int save. One of the saves Orcus is not proficient in. Even with advantage, a +5 save against a DC 23 spell ain't good odds.And even if he does make that, Demogorgon can keep hitting him with gaze attacks every round, or keep fighting with advantage while Orcus has disadvantage. There are simply no good options for Orcus here.I'm not saying it'll be easy. I'm not saying Orcus has no chance; it could still go either way. And of course, I've handwaved Orcus's single biggest weapon, because that changes the entire encounter on a fundamental level.But that "look at me and make saves, or look away and suffer disadvantage while I have advantage" dilemma is a doozy. And I think, if things do come down to one-on-one, it makes Demogorgon the safer bet.</blockquote>

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