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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 2276660" data-attributes="member: 463">gizmo33 >>1. I can't image a king hosting a military order within his kingdom headed by another king. I can't think of a RL precedent for that. I think the risks outweight the advantages.<<Indeed - but this is the situation that has developed in-play.  Overking Tarkane of Imarr is a usurper who originally became King of Imarr 15 years ago partly through the assistance of Ulfius and his Thrinian Knights in overthrowing the Albine colonial rulers - Ulfius is extremely powerful personally, he wields the Bloodhammer, a legendary artifact.  Tarkane has used Ulfius & the Thrinians to destroy his enemies and expand his power - without Ulfius the Overkingdom would have not been nearly so successful in expanding over the past 15 years.  Tarkane made Ulfius Archduke of Colladel to get the Thrinians away from the centre of power.  He definitely recognises Ulfius as a threat, Ulfius and Tarkane don't like each other, but neither is strong enough to move openly against the other.  They have each attempted to assassinate the other but failed (so far) - Tarkane wants the Bloodhammer (legendary weapon of the ancient Kings of Imarr), Ulfius wants to become Overking. >>2. I don't know what similarities would be significant with RL orders of knighthood. One feature of the RL versions, for instance, is that they seemed to get kicked out of places and fought with various kingdoms over power. But in your campaign it seems that heads of kingdoms are, in fact, heads of these fighting orders. That would closely tie the policy of the order with the policy of the kingdom - making them identical. And so the fighting orders would not have their own political identities. <<Yes - the Thrinian Knights _in Thrinia_ embody the State; as do Tarkane's Imperial Bloodhammer Knights in the Overkingdom of Imarr.>>3. So given #2, I would move the heads of the orders to be relatives/allies of the heads of state, giving them natural alliances but leaving room for intrigue and seperate policies for the fighting orders.<<Things could develop that way, but why would a King want to give up that power?>> This way if the King of Imarr ticks off Odin, the fighting order can register it's displeasure. Where the knights of the RL orders vassals of kingdoms? Seems to me that even that would lead to conflicts of interest. If the highest goal of the Knights of Odin is to fight for Odin, you would think that membership in the order would trump all other allegiances. If not, you're not doing the will of Odin.<<The Imperial Bloodhammer Knights & Overking Tarkane their leader have a dual allegiance to the gods Odin and Ksarul.  However their greatest allegiance of the IKB is to the Overking.  If either Odin or Ksarul withdrew their favour from the Overking, most IKB would reject that deity and stick with Tarkane and the 'loyal' deity.The Thrinian Knights are harder to pin down - I'd say Ulfius' Thrinian Knights' chapter in Colladel primary allegiance was to Ulfius, and the Thrinian Knights in Thrinia's primary allegiance was to King Hansor of Thrinia, but if the god Thrin withdrew his favour from Ulfius or Hansor the knights would accept a new leader.kigmatzomat:>>1. I can't image a king hosting a military order within his kingdom headed by another king. I can't think of a RL precedent for that. I think the risks outweight the advantages.Depends on if the are blurry alliegances at play. The various forces funded by the Vatican have often been examples of "aid sent by your kindly religious sovereign" that kings had to put up with. <<Yup, it's like that with the Thrinians in the Overkingdom IMC.>>Quote:But in your campaign it seems that heads of kingdoms are, in fact, heads of these fighting orders. That would closely tie the policy of the order with the policy of the kingdom - making them identical. And so the fighting orders would not have their own political identities.  That's temporary. Wait until the fighting order becomes associated with a family that ceases to be the ruling class. You end up with the Royal Knights that have no love lost to the King.<< That could happen - say Ulfius eliminated Tarkane and became Overking of Imarr, the IKB would likely have no love lost for the new king, indeed there could be civil war in the Overkingdom.</blockquote>

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