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<blockquote data-quote="malcolm_n" data-source="post: 4142100" data-attributes="member: 63154"><p>Thank you for the backing khuxan. I do appreciate your input Neceros, but 4e doesn't look at stats like 3.5 did (the description you gave is exactly that). Instead, it looks at each race individually first and makes it whole and separate from the external influence of other races. Only then does it compare to other races for balance purposes. Elves don't get +2 dex because they're more dextrous than humans. They get it because they're elves. Humans can get a +2 dex, but it comes at a cost; which is to say the ability to train themselves in another stat like str or con.</p><p></p><p>My last real argument for half-orcs getting +2 wis is a bit of a stretch, but is actually why I even considered the stats as they are anyway. King Obold Manyarrows from FR. He was an Orc, yes, but he was also a leader and tactician. Sure, he didn't win all the time, but he knew when to yield and fight another day. Iconically, he's why I felt half-orcs should get more in the way of respect in addition to moving away from the stigmas placed on them in previous editions (a true-bred warrior race conceived by the machinations of two obviously different peoples; who wouldn't want to play that?).</p><p></p><p>With that said, I would have to leave it to you to decide when you play if you want to include the +2 Wis, or exclude the race until we get more word from on high about them. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Cheers and thanks for a great debate on this topic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="malcolm_n, post: 4142100, member: 63154"] Thank you for the backing khuxan. I do appreciate your input Neceros, but 4e doesn't look at stats like 3.5 did (the description you gave is exactly that). Instead, it looks at each race individually first and makes it whole and separate from the external influence of other races. Only then does it compare to other races for balance purposes. Elves don't get +2 dex because they're more dextrous than humans. They get it because they're elves. Humans can get a +2 dex, but it comes at a cost; which is to say the ability to train themselves in another stat like str or con. My last real argument for half-orcs getting +2 wis is a bit of a stretch, but is actually why I even considered the stats as they are anyway. King Obold Manyarrows from FR. He was an Orc, yes, but he was also a leader and tactician. Sure, he didn't win all the time, but he knew when to yield and fight another day. Iconically, he's why I felt half-orcs should get more in the way of respect in addition to moving away from the stigmas placed on them in previous editions (a true-bred warrior race conceived by the machinations of two obviously different peoples; who wouldn't want to play that?). With that said, I would have to leave it to you to decide when you play if you want to include the +2 Wis, or exclude the race until we get more word from on high about them. :) Cheers and thanks for a great debate on this topic. [/QUOTE]
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