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<blockquote data-quote="Nisarg" data-source="post: 1782084" data-attributes="member: 19893">If you're looking for &quot;missing links&quot;, I think D&amp;D 3e had a lot more to owe Ars Magica than it did Rolemaster.. but really its not nescessarily either of those two that it owes, so much as certain roleplaying concepts that had long been around but that 2e had simply ignored.&nbsp; The idea of skills being in the form of bonuses versus a difficulty, the idea of special advantages you can get every so often, etc. etc.The single game that had the MOST influence on D&amp;D was clearly AD&amp;D 1st edition.&nbsp; 3rd rolled back almost all of the changes that 2nd ed had made, brought back the monks and assasins, brought back demons and devils, the D&amp;D 3e DM's guide is clearly Monte's homage to the wonderful old Gary Gygax AD&amp;D Dungeon Master's Guide, in both layout and form, and more important than the letter of the rules they tried to capture that spirit of possibility that was found in the old 1st edition rules, that were so sorely lacking from the 2nd ed rules.And beyond that, if there is one source that I would credit more than either Ars Magica, Talisanta, or Rolemaster for influencing 3rd edition D&amp;D, it would be the playtests that Wizards did with groups of real gamers, and the incorporation of many of their HOUSE RULES into what would become 3rd edition. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the new ideas and changes in 3rd edition came from that, from finding out just how gamers had been trying to make 2nd ed playable for the last decade.&nbsp; In fact, I remember, as no doubt many of you do too, that when 3rd edition first came out I was amazed at how many of the new rules were a carbon copy of house rules I'd been using for years.Anyways, as for the (funny) suggestion that Rolemaster is responsible for the new rules changes (coincidentally put forward by the guy in charge of the new version of rolemaster.. hmm, advertising much?), I would just have to say geez, if rolemaster had really been a huge influence on 3rd ed., you'd think that they would have added the one and ONLY thing that was good about that clunker of a system.. the critical tables!&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> Nisarg</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nisarg, post: 1782084, member: 19893"] If you're looking for "missing links", I think D&D 3e had a lot more to owe Ars Magica than it did Rolemaster.. but really its not nescessarily either of those two that it owes, so much as certain roleplaying concepts that had long been around but that 2e had simply ignored. The idea of skills being in the form of bonuses versus a difficulty, the idea of special advantages you can get every so often, etc. etc. The single game that had the MOST influence on D&D was clearly AD&D 1st edition. 3rd rolled back almost all of the changes that 2nd ed had made, brought back the monks and assasins, brought back demons and devils, the D&D 3e DM's guide is clearly Monte's homage to the wonderful old Gary Gygax AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide, in both layout and form, and more important than the letter of the rules they tried to capture that spirit of possibility that was found in the old 1st edition rules, that were so sorely lacking from the 2nd ed rules. And beyond that, if there is one source that I would credit more than either Ars Magica, Talisanta, or Rolemaster for influencing 3rd edition D&D, it would be the playtests that Wizards did with groups of real gamers, and the incorporation of many of their HOUSE RULES into what would become 3rd edition. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the new ideas and changes in 3rd edition came from that, from finding out just how gamers had been trying to make 2nd ed playable for the last decade. In fact, I remember, as no doubt many of you do too, that when 3rd edition first came out I was amazed at how many of the new rules were a carbon copy of house rules I'd been using for years. Anyways, as for the (funny) suggestion that Rolemaster is responsible for the new rules changes (coincidentally put forward by the guy in charge of the new version of rolemaster.. hmm, advertising much?), I would just have to say geez, if rolemaster had really been a huge influence on 3rd ed., you'd think that they would have added the one and ONLY thing that was good about that clunker of a system.. the critical tables! :cool: Nisarg [/QUOTE]

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