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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BozzNugg" data-source="post: 6715118" data-attributes="member: 6801318">4e HB Necromancer:Jeez... so many things. Shadowcraft MageArcane Theuge and other dual-caster prestige classes.Daelkyr Half-BloodSymbiontsCompanion creatures (which they've already talked about as a module, where you either play with them or not). A TRUE NecromancerSPELL-THIEF/UR-PRIESTSoulknife (as the psionic defender/striker)Beyond that, I'd like to see the initial theme power or something from 4e come back in 5e Specialties, right now they feel kind of arbitrary, being little more than suggested feat trees with a name.... which isn't innovative, they have always had suggested feats for beginning characters.... meh.Thinking about this problem with summoned hordes, I was looking at a Necromancer homebrew class that I had worked on pretty thoroughly in 4e that could provide some insights.Allow me to quote some of the mechanics I implemented. Please note that I had intended to play this class myself and thus, knowing it inside out, I would've been able to act much more quickly than someone who just saw it for the first time. I will admit the minion mechanic is a little complex, but complexity could easily be pared back a bit and introduced in a more graduated fashion. At the time, I was designing it for the 'Shadow Done Right' 4e shadow source wiki, which was rejecting WotC's treatment of the Shadow Power Source as an Essentialized pseudo-power source. Thus, all the Class Traits had to be granted up front (level 1). I will admit that it probably made my design a bit over-powered, but since they opted to use a different build, I was never able to get feedback, and, to this day, have not been able to playtest it myelf. Still, as a jumping off point, I think it does provide some options, particularly the reciprocal relationship between the caster and the minions (caster takes damage from minion death, yet minions are a bit more durable than 4e 'monster' minions), the limitations of the minions themselves (action dependent on the caster, cannot benefit from items, cannot go out of line of sight/effect of the caster as they are conjurations), and the way I attempted to circumvent power-spikes/action over-use by using very careful wording in he 'Target' line of 'Undead' attack powers (basically, you roll one attack roll with a power for multiple creatures, similar to a burst or blast spell but within range X of your minions, the 'Target' line limits how many creatures you can hit, regardless of your number of minions OR it allows all minions to hit, but it must be against separate targets). Their dailies were based off of 'Summon Demon' Wizard Daily Attack Powers, which I believe were from a dragon article... i.e. that typically had an intrinsic nature that could potentially hurt allies or the caster as well as enemies if not occasionally attended to or planned for. Anyway, here is my draft with some selected powers for your perusal:HideNecromancer "I am where life and death converge. I bring life to the dead and death to the living."Class TraitsRole: Controller. Your undead minions spread across the battlefield, acting as your hands and letting you control the pace of battle, though at times you may affect your foes with more direct shadow attacks. Depending on your choice of class features and powers, you might lean toward defender or leader as a secondary role.Power Source: Shadow. You have gained your powers by surrendering a portion of your own life and replacing it with pure shadow energy.Key Abilities: Constitution, Intelligence, CharismaArmor Proficiencies: Cloth, LeatherWeapon Proficiencies: simple melee, military flail, simple rangedImplement Proficiencies: fetishes, tomes, weapons with which you're proficientBonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 WillHit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution scoreHit Points per Level Gained: 4Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifierTrained Skills: Arcana or Religion (your choice). From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.Class Skills: Arcana, Bluff, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, History, Intimidate, Religion, Stealth.Build Options: Blight Necromancer, Dread Necromancer, Horde Necromancer.Class Features: Aspect of Death, Dark Knowledge, Death’s Scholar.Class FeaturesNecromancers have the following class features.Aspect of DeathYou command death in all its forms but you are naturally inclined toward a particular Aspect of Death. You gain the create undead and undead sentinel powers. Additionally, after each extended rest, choose one of the following aspects as your active Aspect of Death. Your undead minions gain the benefit of your chosen aspect. Your active Aspect of Death also provides bonuses to certain necromancer powers. Individual powers detail the effects your active Aspect of Death has on them.Aspect of the Grasping Corpse: Your gaze deadens and your skin takes on a deathly pallor causing you to resemble a corpse. Undead minions created using your create undead power become zombies. Though slow-moving, their brute strength and infectious nature allows you to wreak havoc upon your enemies with blunt force and determination. When you move your zombie minions, you may move them as if they had a speed of 1 + 1 square per tier. Additionally, while you are not wearing heavy armor, you can use your Constitution modifier instead of your Strength modifier when making melee basic attacks with weapons you are proficient with.Aspect of the Skeletal Warrior: Your eyes become sunken and hollow and your flesh tightens causing you to resemble a skeleton. Undead minions created using your create undead power become skeletons. Though weaker than zombies and less evasive than shades, their nimble bones and variety of magical attacks allow you to adapt quickly to any situation. When you move your skeleton minions, you may move them as if they had a speed of 3 + 1 square per tier. Additionally, while you are not wearing heavy armor, you gain a +1 bonus to speed.Aspect of the Looming Shade: Your eyes darken and your body becomes enveloped in shadows causing you to resemble a geist. Undead minions created using your create undead power become shades. Though weak, their ability to haunt and evade enemies allows you to dominate your foes by strategically debilitating them. When you move your shade minions, you may move them as if they had a fly speed of 2 + 1 square per tier (hover) and phasing. Additionally, while you are not wearing heavy armor, you gain a bonus to all defenses equal to 1/2 your Charisma modifier against opportunity attacks.Dark KnowledgeYour studies in ancient texts of anatomy, medicine, virology, and various other topics related to death and suffering have left your mind full of knowledge which others can only dream of. You have wandered to the edge of a dark precipice and stared into the abyss, and the abyss stared back, into the uttermost depths of your soul. You now command knowledge which would wither a normal mortal, using arts others would consider evil and profane to further your own agenda.At 1st level you choose three at-will attack powers. At least one, but no more than two, of those powers must have the undead keyword. In addition, choose one of the following disciplines for your Necromancer to specialize in:Necrophagy: Your necromantic studies have gone far beyond the mere reanimation of tissues or the vagaries of soul enslavement. You have delved into the darkest annals of necromantic lore and come away with incredible power. You do not destroy life, you consume death. You gain Toughness as a bonus feat and a +2 bonus to attacks and damage rolls made against undead and shadow creatures. Additionally, you gain the Leech Life encounter power. Nethermancy: You have studied intensively the profane arts of Nethermancy until the world of death was opened to you. You can call up the spirits of those who have passed on and compel them to your service. You gain resistance to necrotic damage equal to 5 + 1/2 your level and your attacks against undead creatures ignore resistance or immunity to necrotic damage. Additionally, you gain the Netherstep encounter power. Plague Engineering: Your have studies have included herbs, toxins, and diseases which can kill or maim hundreds at a time. Your dark hexes spread curses and contagion which torment your enemies and bring them to Death’s welcoming door. You gain resistance to poison equal to 5 + 1/2 your level and your attacks against undead creatures ignore resistance or immunity to poison. Additionally, you gain the Blight Bringer encounter power.Death’s ScholarYou have long pursued rituals of great power and forbidden knowledge. You gain a +5 bonus to Religion checks made to identify undead and shadow creatures. You also gain the Ritual Caster feat as a bonus feat and gain the Gentle Repose and Speak with Dead rituals at 1st level (see Players Handbook, pp. 306 and 312). Once per day, you may spend a healing surge to ignore the component cost when performing either of these rituals.Necromancer PowersNew Keyword: UndeadMany necromancer powers have the undead keyword. An undead minion must be present when you use such a power. If an undead power includes “undead” in its range, you determine line of sight and line of effect from your undead minion’s space, which is also the power’s origin square.Class FeaturesAll necromancers gain the create undead and undead sentinel powers. Individual necromancers gain either the Blight Bringer, Leech Life, or Netherstep encounter power depending on their choice of Dark Knowledge.Using Undead Minions:Undead minions are a unique kind of conjuration created when a necromancer uses their own life energy to give material form to spirits of the deceased which are called forth from the Shadowfell. The being created from this process is in some ways similar to a real creature, though far less independent. Because of this, minions affect and are affected by terrain and the environment as if they were corporeal creatures unless some effect causes them to behave otherwise. Additionally, though minions gain no benefit from using weapons, implements, or any other items, each minion can carry as much weight as you can, but drops all carried items if it is destroyed or dismissed. Because your minions are animated by your own life force, you are limited in how many you can control at one time. You can control up to 3 minions at first level, at levels 5, 15, and 25, you gain the ability to control 1 additional minion. Attempts to conjure more minions beyond this limit automatically fail. You may dismiss any number of your undead minions as a minor action. If you choose to dismiss a minion, it discorporates instantly, disappearing back to the Shadowfell and dropping any items or equipment it was carrying.Likewise, because you share such a bond with your minions, they act according to your will. Minions normally have no actions of their own but, if you have line of sight to one, you may spend actions to command it mentally. When you command a minion, the two of you share basic knowledge but not senses. Minions cannot make melee or ranged basic attacks, have no healing surges, and are normally incapable of flanking, performing complex tasks, or speech. If a minion makes a check, you make the roll using your modifiers and scores.You may give undead minions the following special commands:Move Action: You can command any number of minions you control to either: walk up to their speed, shift 1, climb, crawl, escape from a grab, jump, stand up, or squeeze. Alternatively, you may command one minion to move up to twice its speed. Minions cannot run. Minor Action: You can command any number of minions you control to either: drop prone, open or close a door, pick up an item, or retrieve or stow an item. Free Action: You can command any number of minions you control to either: drop held items, end a grab, make a noise, or make a stealth check. Class PowersCreate UndeadYou create an undead minion to do your bidding by first calling forth a dead spirit from the Shadowfell and then using your life-force to bond it to a material body wrought of pure shadowstuff.At-Will ♦ Conjuration, ShadowMinor Action Close burst 10Effect: You conjure an undead minion of the type associated with your active Aspect of Death in an unoccupied square in the burst. Minions last until you dismiss them or they are destroyed. A minion occupies 1 square and enemies cannot move through its space, though allies still can. Minions can be targeted by attacks, though they have no hit points. If a minion is hit and takes any damage, the minion is destroyed and you take damage equal to 3 + one-half your level. Otherwise, the minion is unaffected by the attack. Minions are immune to disease and poison and are never damaged on a miss or by ongoing damage.Minions count as allies to you and your allies for the purpose of effects that relate to allies and as undead shadow creatures for the purpose of effects that relate to creatures.Special: You can control up to 3 minions at first level, at levels 5, 15, and 25, you gain the ability to control 1 additional minion. Attempts to conjure more minions beyond this limit automatically fail. If you choose to dismiss a minion, it discorporates instantly, disappearing back to the Shadowfell and dropping any items or equipment it was carrying.Undead Sentinel As an unwary foe turns its back, your minion lashes out with a sudden ferocity.At-Will ♦ Undead, Implement, ShadowOpportunity Action Melee undead 1Trigger: An enemy leaves a square adjacent to one of your undead minions without shifting.Target: The triggering enemy. Attack: Constitution vs. ReflexHit: Constitution modifier damage.Level 11: 2 + Constitution modifier damage.Level 21: 4 + Constitution modifier damage.Grasping Corpse: On a hit, the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.Skeletal Warrior: The target grants combat advantage until the end of your next turn. Looming Shade: On a hit, the target may complete its movement. Once it has, your minion may teleport a number of squares equal to or less than your Charisma modifier toward the target.Special: You may only make this attack once per minion per round. Blight BringerYou infuse your attack with a deadly contagion.Encounter ♦ Poison, ShadowFree Action Close burst 10Trigger: You hit with an encounter or daily attack power.Effect: Each target of the attack takes ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends)Level 11: Ongoing 10 poison.Level 21: Ongoing 15 poison.Leech LifeYou drain the life energy from enemies around you to fuel your own unnatural vitality.Encounter ♦ Necrotic, ShadowFree Action Close burst 1Trigger: You hit with an encounter or daily attack power.Target: All enemies in burst.Attack: Constitution vs. FortitudeHit: Constitution modifier necrotic damage.Level 11: 2 + Constitution modifier necrotic damage.Level 21: 4 + Constitution modifier necrotic damage.Effect: You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage done by this attack.NetherstepYou walk the line between life and death.Encounter ♦ ShadowFree Action PersonalTrigger: You hit with an encounter or daily attack power.Effect: You gain phasing and insubstantial until the end of your next turn, and you may teleport a number of squares equal to or less than your Charisma modifier.Attack PowersSwarming HordeAt your command, your undead minions turn their attention to a single foe.At-Will ♦ Implement, Undead, ShadowStandard Action Melee undead 1Target: One creatureAttack: Constitution vs. ReflexHit: 1d8 + Constitution modifier damage, plus 1 damage for each undead minion adjacent to the target.Level 21: 2d8 + Constitution modifier damage.Grasping Corpse: On a hit, the target is slowed until the beginning of your next turn as long as at least two of your undead minions were adjacent to it when it was hit.Bone WhipSprouting whips of ebon bone and crackling shadow energy, your undead minions attack your enemies at a distance.At-Will ♦ Implement, Undead, ShadowStandard Action Melee undead 2Target: One creature per minion. You may not attack the same target multiple times.Attack: Constitution vs. ReflexHit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.Level 21: 2d6 + Constitution modifier damage.Skeletal Warrior: You may slide the target 1 square.Charnel TouchThe touch of your undead minion fills the target with thoughts of death, sapping his will.At-Will ♦ Implement, Undead, Shadow, Necrotic, FearStandard Action Melee undead 1Target: One creature per minion. You may not attack the same target multiple times.Attack: Constitution vs. WillHit: 1d4 + Constitution modifier necrotic damage. The next attack the target makes before the end of your next turn takes a penalty to the damage roll equal to your Charisma modifier.Level 21: 2d4 + Constitution modifier necrotic damage.Looming Shade: If the target is hit, it takes the penalty to the damage roll on all attacks until the end of your next turn.Thanks Wrecan and Matyr.</blockquote>

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