Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
OSR Gripes
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7632646" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>The problem with the phrase "old-skool games" is that if you were actually back in the old-skool you know that the actual rules in force at a particular table, and the actual styles of the DM varied so much from table to table that I honestly have very little idea what is meant by the term. But, to the extent that the term has any meaning at all, I would assume it means games played as the rules and guidelines of the original books (and then, which ones?) provided for and outlined.</p><p></p><p>The truths I'm asserting assume that by and large you played a game based on the books and on published modules, or at least with homebrew content that was something like published modules.</p><p></p><p>If you didn't play by the rules or your DM used processes of play radically different than the books, of course all my assertions about what your game was like are meaningless.</p><p></p><p>The problem I have generating any meaningful discussion thus far is everyone is happy to provide a flat denial, but no one is actually analyzing why the game they played was like what they asserted or what impact the actual rules had on the game. If you'll go through the thread, I'm literally the only one talking about the impact of rules and or published examples of play and what it is and was like to run them.</p><p></p><p>So by all means, explain how on the basis of the rules I'm wrong about the viability of characters. Or if I'm not wrong, explain what rules exemptions or modifications you used (M-U's could learn all spells regardless of intelligence, priest spells always worked regardless of Wisdom score, you could play any class despite having a 5 in a score, you could achieve any level as a demi-human, you could play any class regardless of stat prerequisites, your table tolerated cheating, you never played past 5th level on any regular basis, your DM used generous magic item placement to boost weak characters up to relevance, your DM used high illusionism techniques to ensure spot light distribution, etc. etc. etc.) that explain how you had such a vastly different experience that what you would have had, had you used the rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm trying to explain why fidelity to "old skool" rule sets is a misguided sort of fidelity. Remember, it is the OSR people that insist the rules create the experience of play, otherwise there would be no need to adopt "old skool" rules. Yet, it is equally the OSR people avoiding a discussion of why that is so that has any specifics in it. Instead, we get generic applies to any edition of D&D assertions like, "You really need to prepare for combat instead of blindly charging in if you want to succeed." or some other weak sauce statements that remind me of every small town in America's claim to have "world famous BBQ".</p><p></p><p>"You'll find its really different here from other places. People around here really like to eat food. We're different that way."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Great. What was your experience and how was it achieved?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7632646, member: 4937"] The problem with the phrase "old-skool games" is that if you were actually back in the old-skool you know that the actual rules in force at a particular table, and the actual styles of the DM varied so much from table to table that I honestly have very little idea what is meant by the term. But, to the extent that the term has any meaning at all, I would assume it means games played as the rules and guidelines of the original books (and then, which ones?) provided for and outlined. The truths I'm asserting assume that by and large you played a game based on the books and on published modules, or at least with homebrew content that was something like published modules. If you didn't play by the rules or your DM used processes of play radically different than the books, of course all my assertions about what your game was like are meaningless. The problem I have generating any meaningful discussion thus far is everyone is happy to provide a flat denial, but no one is actually analyzing why the game they played was like what they asserted or what impact the actual rules had on the game. If you'll go through the thread, I'm literally the only one talking about the impact of rules and or published examples of play and what it is and was like to run them. So by all means, explain how on the basis of the rules I'm wrong about the viability of characters. Or if I'm not wrong, explain what rules exemptions or modifications you used (M-U's could learn all spells regardless of intelligence, priest spells always worked regardless of Wisdom score, you could play any class despite having a 5 in a score, you could achieve any level as a demi-human, you could play any class regardless of stat prerequisites, your table tolerated cheating, you never played past 5th level on any regular basis, your DM used generous magic item placement to boost weak characters up to relevance, your DM used high illusionism techniques to ensure spot light distribution, etc. etc. etc.) that explain how you had such a vastly different experience that what you would have had, had you used the rules. I'm trying to explain why fidelity to "old skool" rule sets is a misguided sort of fidelity. Remember, it is the OSR people that insist the rules create the experience of play, otherwise there would be no need to adopt "old skool" rules. Yet, it is equally the OSR people avoiding a discussion of why that is so that has any specifics in it. Instead, we get generic applies to any edition of D&D assertions like, "You really need to prepare for combat instead of blindly charging in if you want to succeed." or some other weak sauce statements that remind me of every small town in America's claim to have "world famous BBQ". "You'll find its really different here from other places. People around here really like to eat food. We're different that way." Great. What was your experience and how was it achieved? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
OSR Gripes
Top