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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7632665" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Maybe...</p><p></p><p>Again, I'm assuming that there is a group of players who are more or less peers, and what the group is usually doing is having adventures, often in dungeons, against foes that at least occasionally challenge them, and that those adventures more or less resemble the sort that were published as examples of play commonly called 'modules'.</p><p></p><p>So yes, that's a lot of assumptions - not solo play, not focused on internal character introspection or exploration (what the character thinks about themselves and the world), not ensemble or troupe play where the player willingly plays a sidekick or ward of a the actual protagonist, etc. But considered we are supposedly talking about "old skool D&D" I don't think they are unreasonable assumptions.</p><p></p><p>Further, I've already sort of prompted for some possible rules changes or processes of play that would alter the math. For example, one take on the problem is that the DM could see that a particular character couldn't carry spot light or equal weight and so create for that character a story role and create party balance by DM fiat. For example, if some player insisted on playing a character with nothing higher than a 14 in a party that was evolving toward very strong and successful characters with high stats, then I could do something like say that the character was the long lost prince about which many prophecies spoke and that he inherited a +4 sword of sharpness which only could be wielded by one of the blood. Now, I've essentially gifted the player some character powers and party balance of the spotlight is restored. So yeah, I can get that there are ways around that, but what I can say is that while that's utterly obvious to me now I don't know of any DMs back then for which that sort of thing was utterly obvious, nor do I suspect everyone that I played with would have been happy about such "DM favoritism". Certainly that is a process of play that wasn't widely talked about at the time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7632665, member: 4937"] Maybe... Again, I'm assuming that there is a group of players who are more or less peers, and what the group is usually doing is having adventures, often in dungeons, against foes that at least occasionally challenge them, and that those adventures more or less resemble the sort that were published as examples of play commonly called 'modules'. So yes, that's a lot of assumptions - not solo play, not focused on internal character introspection or exploration (what the character thinks about themselves and the world), not ensemble or troupe play where the player willingly plays a sidekick or ward of a the actual protagonist, etc. But considered we are supposedly talking about "old skool D&D" I don't think they are unreasonable assumptions. Further, I've already sort of prompted for some possible rules changes or processes of play that would alter the math. For example, one take on the problem is that the DM could see that a particular character couldn't carry spot light or equal weight and so create for that character a story role and create party balance by DM fiat. For example, if some player insisted on playing a character with nothing higher than a 14 in a party that was evolving toward very strong and successful characters with high stats, then I could do something like say that the character was the long lost prince about which many prophecies spoke and that he inherited a +4 sword of sharpness which only could be wielded by one of the blood. Now, I've essentially gifted the player some character powers and party balance of the spotlight is restored. So yeah, I can get that there are ways around that, but what I can say is that while that's utterly obvious to me now I don't know of any DMs back then for which that sort of thing was utterly obvious, nor do I suspect everyone that I played with would have been happy about such "DM favoritism". Certainly that is a process of play that wasn't widely talked about at the time. [/QUOTE]
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