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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7633253" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Climb was also STR-based in 3e, so the Rogue was unlikely to have the highest raw check... </p><p>...though perhaps likely to be higher than the Fighter after armor penalties. </p><p>And, perhaps amusingly, a raging barbarian could /really/ climb. ;P </p><p>(Unless you deemed that climbing required some finesse so couldn't be done while raging.)</p><p></p><p>Had the most skills is a world of difference from the only one with special abilities, that were either the only way to accomplish that range of tasks - or the only way to accomplish 'impossible' examples of those tasks.</p><p></p><p>It's the latter I'm curious about. </p><p></p><p>In 3e, the Thief's Trapfinding feature made him able to find traps (with DCs over 20) that non-thieves(non-dwarves-searching stonework, non-clerics-casting-find-traps) couldn't. It looked, to me, like it was a bit of niche-protection - inn the past, only the Thief could look for traps, at all, others could, at most, probe ahead to set them off hopefully while out of danger, now there was a defined line letting them find some easier traps. </p><p>From this other point of view I'm hearing about, now, it was a sole example of things staying the same: that, before, everyone could perform every Thief special ability, to a mundane level, though no mechanics were generally forthcoming, but the Thief's facility was truly special in every case, "now" (in 3e) only Trapfinding was special. </p><p></p><p>Not surprising.</p><p></p><p>So, were you on the original-Thief Special Abilities were nigh-supernatural, do-the-impossible things, or just considering it as one way of looking at it? Because 3e would seem quite the let-down if you were committed to that viewpoint at the time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7633253, member: 996"] Climb was also STR-based in 3e, so the Rogue was unlikely to have the highest raw check... ...though perhaps likely to be higher than the Fighter after armor penalties. And, perhaps amusingly, a raging barbarian could /really/ climb. ;P (Unless you deemed that climbing required some finesse so couldn't be done while raging.) Had the most skills is a world of difference from the only one with special abilities, that were either the only way to accomplish that range of tasks - or the only way to accomplish 'impossible' examples of those tasks. It's the latter I'm curious about. In 3e, the Thief's Trapfinding feature made him able to find traps (with DCs over 20) that non-thieves(non-dwarves-searching stonework, non-clerics-casting-find-traps) couldn't. It looked, to me, like it was a bit of niche-protection - inn the past, only the Thief could look for traps, at all, others could, at most, probe ahead to set them off hopefully while out of danger, now there was a defined line letting them find some easier traps. From this other point of view I'm hearing about, now, it was a sole example of things staying the same: that, before, everyone could perform every Thief special ability, to a mundane level, though no mechanics were generally forthcoming, but the Thief's facility was truly special in every case, "now" (in 3e) only Trapfinding was special. Not surprising. So, were you on the original-Thief Special Abilities were nigh-supernatural, do-the-impossible things, or just considering it as one way of looking at it? Because 3e would seem quite the let-down if you were committed to that viewpoint at the time. [/QUOTE]
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