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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7635789" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>The difference in ease of use is certainly there, that's been the game's direction the whole time, it's one thing the WotC era hasn't deviated from. </p><p>Maybe it was just 'pervasive' that threw me.</p><p></p><p>Because, yeah, neo-Vancian is way more versatile than old-school Vanican, and way less limited in in-combat used. OTOH, the breadths of spells isn't as great, and some of them are, well, 'less broken' in some ways... ;|</p><p></p><p> You could absolutely have a 1e party who could all cast spells. The option to have a non-caster isn't gone, in 5e, either, it's just isolated to a few sub-class choices. So you can still have a population in which casters are just as rare as you like. Doesn't speak to pervasive, in the setting. </p><p></p><p>Old-school magic items are a little bit of a difference from 5e. Again, it's one of those things where if you see them /returning/ from their relative absence of the prior decade or so, it's a different impression if you see them getting tweaked from 'what they'd always been' (from '74 or 79 through 1999). One of the stand-outs, for instance, is that items that replace stats, Gauntlets of Ogre Power &c. They were changed to stat boosts in 3e, basically erased in 4e, and, now, boom, they're back. But 18/00 and 19 aren't the same thing, and they're "not assumed" anymore...</p><p></p><p>...then again, that can be little more than a polite fiction. Ultimately the DM places magic items in all eds, anyway.</p><p></p><p> </p><p>OK that's an interesting take. I thought of OSR as /distinct/ from the games they were cloning or evoking, which was one of the things that always made me wonder about it. Like, I can just dust off the old books... right?</p><p></p><p>That's certainly one of the things it was going for.</p><p></p><p>It starts out AD&D-like … OK, 2e-AD&D-ish. Kit's are called Backgrounds, MCing doesn't work right, but you can kinda fake a fighter/magic-user with an EK, and any whatever/Thief with the Criminal background, and how much other MCing was there, really? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Turn on Feats & MCing and it's more 3e-like, but you really have to re-invent make/buy, and the lack of PrCs is sad. </p><p></p><p>Flip on the 'gritty' rest settings if you really need them to get a slower pacing. </p><p></p><p>It might be tempting to think you have to trash the skill "system," but, really, the DM can straight-up ignore it where it doesn't map to things that feel right. Because of the "play loop" - y'know, DM describes the sitch, player declares an action, DM /determines how to resolve it/ and narrates results. You just never punt to the un-D&D-feeling skills like Diplomacy or whatever (and players figure that out and never take said skills).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7635789, member: 996"] The difference in ease of use is certainly there, that's been the game's direction the whole time, it's one thing the WotC era hasn't deviated from. Maybe it was just 'pervasive' that threw me. Because, yeah, neo-Vancian is way more versatile than old-school Vanican, and way less limited in in-combat used. OTOH, the breadths of spells isn't as great, and some of them are, well, 'less broken' in some ways... ;| You could absolutely have a 1e party who could all cast spells. The option to have a non-caster isn't gone, in 5e, either, it's just isolated to a few sub-class choices. So you can still have a population in which casters are just as rare as you like. Doesn't speak to pervasive, in the setting. Old-school magic items are a little bit of a difference from 5e. Again, it's one of those things where if you see them /returning/ from their relative absence of the prior decade or so, it's a different impression if you see them getting tweaked from 'what they'd always been' (from '74 or 79 through 1999). One of the stand-outs, for instance, is that items that replace stats, Gauntlets of Ogre Power &c. They were changed to stat boosts in 3e, basically erased in 4e, and, now, boom, they're back. But 18/00 and 19 aren't the same thing, and they're "not assumed" anymore... ...then again, that can be little more than a polite fiction. Ultimately the DM places magic items in all eds, anyway. OK that's an interesting take. I thought of OSR as /distinct/ from the games they were cloning or evoking, which was one of the things that always made me wonder about it. Like, I can just dust off the old books... right? That's certainly one of the things it was going for. It starts out AD&D-like … OK, 2e-AD&D-ish. Kit's are called Backgrounds, MCing doesn't work right, but you can kinda fake a fighter/magic-user with an EK, and any whatever/Thief with the Criminal background, and how much other MCing was there, really? ;) Turn on Feats & MCing and it's more 3e-like, but you really have to re-invent make/buy, and the lack of PrCs is sad. Flip on the 'gritty' rest settings if you really need them to get a slower pacing. It might be tempting to think you have to trash the skill "system," but, really, the DM can straight-up ignore it where it doesn't map to things that feel right. Because of the "play loop" - y'know, DM describes the sitch, player declares an action, DM /determines how to resolve it/ and narrates results. You just never punt to the un-D&D-feeling skills like Diplomacy or whatever (and players figure that out and never take said skills). [/QUOTE]
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