Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7462177" data-attributes="member: 996">Starting in 3e, when exp was generally given to the party, and divided equally, it became a reward just for showing up.Or any other system, yes.It probably looks like two peole playing chess, Monopoly or Backgammon, and one of them winning more often than he should.&nbsp;In RuneQuest, going into a fight swinging one weapon until you hit someone, then dropping it and pulling another, than high-tailing it once you'd gotten a check by all your weapons.&nbsp; For just one example that I still remember 30+ years later...Traveller?&nbsp; Rolling a crap character and tossing him into the Scouts in the hope he'll die and you can try again.&nbsp;I could call some of it 'gaming the system,' though, like when his playtesters famously were all using iron spikes because the only difference among weapons was how much they cost, and they were the cheapest.&nbsp;Keep in mind that it doesn't even have an easily pinned-down meaning.&nbsp; I tend to use &quot;power gamer&quot; the way I would &quot;power user&quot; someone who really knows a system &amp; how to get the most out of it, but doesn't actually administer (run) or create systems or take them appart and fix them.&nbsp; Some folks'll tell you that optimization is more specific than powergaming focusing just on maximizing something, others the opposite, that powergaming is just optimizing unsophisticatedly for raw power.So not even synonymous with &quot;gaming the system,&quot; necessarily.&nbsp;Different from gaming the system - maybe gaming the DM, depending on why he's running Monty Haul.&nbsp; And, tangent:&nbsp; the tendency of one group of gamers to use a prejorative against a another group, or&nbsp; game or edition, only to have yet another come along and pick it up for use against them, is both common, and an object lesson folks might want to start to learning from at some point...&nbsp; &nbsp;More of the same, really.&nbsp; But I get the 'incoherence' idea in there and don't care for it - the idea that 'incoherence' is really a thing.&nbsp;Not entirely unfair, doesn't seem that relevant, either.&nbsp; Yeah D&amp;D could be fixed up a lot better than it currently is (and has been, and was rejected for it), so it's clearly established that D&amp;Ders not only like playing a system that's highly susceptible to being 'gamed' (in it's own metagame, I suppose you could say) or 'abused' (if 'gaming the system' sounds redundant when the system is meant to be a game), but will not accept one that has too many of the loopholes they like closed.&nbsp; Maybe that does indicate that the gaming-the-system/system-mastery meta-game /is/ the game on some level?&nbsp; ::shrug::</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7462177, member: 996"] Starting in 3e, when exp was generally given to the party, and divided equally, it became a reward just for showing up. Or any other system, yes. It probably looks like two peole playing chess, Monopoly or Backgammon, and one of them winning more often than he should. In RuneQuest, going into a fight swinging one weapon until you hit someone, then dropping it and pulling another, than high-tailing it once you'd gotten a check by all your weapons. For just one example that I still remember 30+ years later... Traveller? Rolling a crap character and tossing him into the Scouts in the hope he'll die and you can try again. I could call some of it 'gaming the system,' though, like when his playtesters famously were all using iron spikes because the only difference among weapons was how much they cost, and they were the cheapest. Keep in mind that it doesn't even have an easily pinned-down meaning. I tend to use "power gamer" the way I would "power user" someone who really knows a system & how to get the most out of it, but doesn't actually administer (run) or create systems or take them appart and fix them. Some folks'll tell you that optimization is more specific than powergaming focusing just on maximizing something, others the opposite, that powergaming is just optimizing unsophisticatedly for raw power. So not even synonymous with "gaming the system," necessarily. Different from gaming the system - maybe gaming the DM, depending on why he's running Monty Haul. And, tangent: the tendency of one group of gamers to use a prejorative against a another group, or game or edition, only to have yet another come along and pick it up for use against them, is both common, and an object lesson folks might want to start to learning from at some point... More of the same, really. But I get the 'incoherence' idea in there and don't care for it - the idea that 'incoherence' is really a thing. Not entirely unfair, doesn't seem that relevant, either. Yeah D&D could be fixed up a lot better than it currently is (and has been, and was rejected for it), so it's clearly established that D&Ders not only like playing a system that's highly susceptible to being 'gamed' (in it's own metagame, I suppose you could say) or 'abused' (if 'gaming the system' sounds redundant when the system is meant to be a game), but will not accept one that has too many of the loopholes they like closed. Maybe that does indicate that the gaming-the-system/system-mastery meta-game /is/ the game on some level? ::shrug:: [/QUOTE]

Verification