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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 354622" data-attributes="member: 2020">It is quite true that x amount of magic does not equal y amount of energy (as energy is thought of from the scientific viewpoint.)  - - -  Looking at the case of Athas, we have here a planet orbiting a star that was once a blue star, and which is now in the process of becoming a red supergiant.  If you look at the physics and energy involved in the evolution of a blue star, you will see that the numbers and scope are staggering.  This is an evolution that will ultimately lead to a supernova.    It is stated in Dark Sun Canon that Defiler Magic is the reason for the change in the sun.  If we DO accept that the sun was a blue star, and if we DO accept that it is swelling into a red supergiant ... and if we DO accept that Defiler Magic sped up the process so that it took only a few thousand years, then that says something about Defiler Magic.  That something is ... not ... well defined, in my opinion, by the word paltry.  I use the word paltry, because the ruin of Athas by Defiler Magic IS paltry, in comparison to the change in the sun of Athas - it is so paltry in comparison that there is no comparison (not unless you put some new power into the equation that I do not know about, such as life being powerful like stars are powerful, in it's own way, for instance.)  I have commented that, if you accept that a human being (or any magic-worker) could harness an amount of magic equal to his or her's potential energy in the mass of his or her body, then your typical mage could wield a lot of magic.  Too much magic for their own good - said mage or magistress would quickly start blowing up whole cities, then whole countries, and ultimately the whole world would be destroyed.  My point was that there is a terrifically huge amount of energy in people, and perhaps the use of magic harnesses that energy to SOME degree - if it does, then what Gary Gygax has said, is annulled.  Or perhaps people have an innate magical potential equal to their energy potential, and they can tap some of it, and again Gary Gygax's statements are annulled.  However, the Defilers of Athas are a lot more powerful than my theoretical mage or magistress who pulls magic and energy from his or her body.  The amount of energy, or the magical equivalent thereof, necessary to change Athas's SUN in any way is ... well, it is beyond comprehension.    It's off the end of the greatest epic chart ever created by the most meglomaniac power DM who ever lived.  If you took the energy from the combined mass of every living thing on the verdant world of Toril, and assumed an equal amount of magical might, and you threw all that magic, all at once, all with the sole purpose of changing the sun of Athas, it would not work.  It simply would not be enough magic to do the job.  Those Defilers have something going for them, I say.  What, I do not know, but something good.  Where can MY characters gain that kind of power?  - - -  Of course, you do know what happens next in the evolution of Athas's sun, don't you - assuming the Defilers keep going and they keep changing the sun?  The next step is the Helium Pop, where the helium starts fusing into oxygen and similar elements.  This will come close to blowing the star apart, but not quite - and after a while the helium will settle down into a new core of fusion, while hydrogen fuses around it.  The luminosity and heat radiance of the sun will increase greatly, and fluctuate wildly.  The increased fusion reaction will start to overcome some of the star's gravity, causing it's outer layers to start blowing off in waves of superheated gas.  This will have some minor detrimental effects on Athas.  The atmosphere will be driven off by the wave upon wave of superhot blasts coming from the sun.  The remaining water will evaporate and blow away into space.  The surface will heat up until it melts, and Athas turns entirely molten.  Athas will continue to heat up until the temperature reaches the boiling point of it's rock, and then it will start to evaporate, a long tail of vapor streaming away from it, blown directly away from it's sun by the wave upon wave of hot blasts.  If the Defilers survive this, the next step is another pop, and then another, until iron begins building up in the core of the red supergiant sun.  The next step is a supernova.  Heh.  Too much power in the wrong hands can be a bad thing indeed.</blockquote>

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