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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 2099306" data-attributes="member: 1757">I just don't understand what they need a 4e for. 3e didn't make any particularly large changes to the system (except, IMHO, that 2e actually worked better for some things; Threat Ratings, f'rinstance, are a better idea IMHO than 3e's "Equal," "Superior," etc. ratings, and I think magical characters were unnecessarily gimped in 3e). Are they really changing the system that much, or just trying to sell another $35 book?As to d20 SR: Sorry to add to the OT debate, but I've played Shadowrun for 13(?) years, and I've gotta say that this is what it boils down to:Start with base target number depending on difficulty of objective. Add modifiers depending on circumstances and on fancy gear possessed by rolling character. Roll (usually heaping fistfuls of) d6s vs. target number. Period.D20, OTOH, looks like this:Start with base DC depending on difficulty of objective, replacing DC with AC in a situation in which character needs to hit and do damage to other character/object. Add modifiers depending on circumstances and on fancy gear possessed by rolling character. Roll (d20 + mod) vs. DC. Period.Sound like maybe you could simulate this with d20 roll vs. DC? Hmm. The major difference is that skilled SR characters get to roll large numbers of d6s to hit their TN, and skilled d20 characters get to add high mods to their d20 roll. Incidentally, Ottergame, Str in SR is NOT like BAB; that is simulated by the Armed Combat, Firearms, Gunnery, etc. skills. Str "adds" to damage with melee weapons just like in D&D. The major difference between SR's current ruleset and d20 have to do with the determination of probabilities. I fail to see how that affects game flavor. Moreover, I actually think the determination of probabilities is one of the huge flaws with SR. d20 characters can take 10 or 20 to accomplish routine tasks. Granularity (due to die size) is much finer for easier tasks. And. probabilities are very, very easy to set. The probabilities for TNs, OTOH, are nearly impossible to set. Also, a +1 to a TN means anything from a 0% additional chance of failure (as between 6 and 7, for example) to an enormous additional chance of failure. Not really an efficient system anyway.I think a conversion could be done (and oh how I wish it were; I'd love to play this game!) given attention to the following:-Equalizing high-equipment characters with magically-active characters with metahuman characters-An AC/DR system that deals better with ranged combat (I think an armor as DR/class defense bonus variant would work fine here)-Making mods to initiative REALLY important (a variant initiative system could work here; perhaps allow very high mods to Init, and allow an extra action per x amount of Init rolled)Why, BTW, do you need a classless system? SR's "point buy" system makes it essentially impossible to have everything anyway; in fact, for certain archetypes (magically-active characters) it is impossible to do anything well except cast spells or use nifty physad abilities. In any case, think not of the fighter, mage, etc., but of a system closer to d20 Modern, that not only allows for basic/advanced classes but has pretty open multiclassing. A decker who decided to be a bit combat-savvy just has to stick a level into a high-BAB class. The one thing you would need is a system for allowing PCs to be money specialists; a class that allows access to large amounts of cash would be a way to go, or a trio of classes (sam, decker, rigger) that grants particular 'ware (either a set nuyen amount, or a "pick-and-choose from the following list" amount) as a starting class feature.</blockquote>

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