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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wayside" data-source="post: 431696" data-attributes="member: 8394">Well, the bottom line is that none of these so-called strategy games involve much strategy at all.  There is a limit not only to how good you can be, but to the options availible to you for achieving victory.  1 player can never beat out 7 others all working against him, which is pretty ridiculous for a strategy game.People think I'm insane when I say this but I think some of the most strategic games out there are very simple, like Smash Bros.  In the first place they're unwilling to label it a stretgy game, which I can certainly understand, but the fact that I can take 3 other people working against me and easily destroy them has nothing to do with mastering the game; it's about strategy.  The degree to which you can just utterly manipulate your opponent(s) is greater here than in rts games as far as I have ever seen.  I suppose it's sort of like Kendo or chess in certain ways, though I wouldn't take either analogy terribly far.  These things just don't manifest in games like Starcraft or Warcraft, whether there is the potential for them to or not.  In my observation the crafts play out much more like a game of Magic than anything resembling strategy (again it's a question of what actually manifests in the game, not of what could potentially), i.e. metagame and what not, a few established strategies, some aces, not often anything terribly exciting--though I think that Magic is a lot more complex than the crafts, or at least it used to be, I havn't checked up on it in about 3 years.I know there are people who make use of some more complex ideas in these games and give them funny names like tactical aggression or tactical adaptation, but it pretty much comes down to micromanagement, scouting and adapting, tactical or no.That said I still feel Warcraft 3 is a more complex game than BroodWar, but we can play I'm right/you're right all day and get nowhere so..Interesting that people feel orcs are weakened now.  I didn't start playing them until 1.03 but I'm 7 and 0 so far, but then that's 2v2.  The weak race, at least in 2v2, is Night Elf.  If they go to Hunts they lose, if they go archers they lose.  Come to think of it they're incredibly vulnerable to offensive towering in 1v1 as well so.  But I'm rambling..</blockquote>

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