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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 671019" data-attributes="member: 5171">Darius,Sounds like you had a tough school.  What does concern me, though, is this "Train until you're sick" mindset.  That's like saying "go to the gym and lift weights until you pull a muscle and physically can't lift anymore.  Then, the next day, take some advil and do it again.  You'll get strong really fast."Um, maybe.  OR you'll give yourself a permanent injury.  OR you'll give yourself a temporary injury that makes it impossible to train for awhile.  OR you'll give yourself a minor injury that makes you unconsciously change your movements to favor it, forcing you to do more work when you're feeling better to get rid of those problems.Training must take into account the culture of the trainees.  Now, my Kenpo school -- and I know that you don't respect Kenpo, but that's what I study, so deal with it -- gives a good workout.  Considering that an individual class lasts only an hour, they create one of the most effective workouts I've ever seen, getting people exhausted but doing so in a safe manner.  This class succeeds in absolutely whooping the athletes who come in, and ALSO gives a good workout to the stay-at-home moms, deskbound employees, couch potatoes, and other folks who weren't much used to exercise.  At the end of the class, everyone is exhausted, but I have rarely seen any injury worse than being stiff or pulling a muscle.  The teachers are good enough observers to know when people are reaching their limits, and they always ensure that things stay safe.And those are the group classes.  In the private lessons, sometimes I get a huge workout, heavier than any group class, and sometimes I barely even sweat.  It all depends on what my teacher wants me to learn, and what that requires.  If I'm learning a new kata, I ain't sweating much.  If I'm running through stuff for test prep, I'll be sweating buckets.I bring this up not to defend my school, but to set up more realistic expectations for someone looking for a school.  There's a good chance that the place you find WON'T insist on people vomiting each lesson, won't work people with edged weapons until they accidentally cut themselves, and won't give people bloody noses in its tests.  And just because it isn't the Marine Corps Crucible doesn't mean it's a bad school.  Martial arts threads have a long history of getting into ego measurement and inflated stories about the number of ninjas you have to kill in tests or the number of knuckle pushups you have to do and all that.  If you're going to politely pity the schools that don't make people vomit or bleed on a regular basis, I'm going to politely pity a school that can't teach except by doing so.-Tacky</blockquote>

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