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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kail" data-source="post: 672924" data-attributes="member: 8851">Hey all, lets get down to it before sleep calls me again.  Darius, ok, I guess my point got lost in the rambling, appologies for that.  My compairisons between the Hwa Rang Do/TKD and Judo/Kenjitsu were ment to point out the differnces between the two forms.  One set, Hwa Rang Do and Kenjitsu representing the older warriors arts and Judo/TKD the more modern sporting art.  TKD was formulated in the 1950's by a Korean general, who's name escapes me, though he receintly passed away.  Hwa Rang Do originated with the Hwa Rang warriors covering their entire fighting system, which due to geography, would be heavily influenced by Sholin systems in souther China.  Sorry of the compairison wasn't clear, lack of sleep and typing tends to obscure my ability to make a point.  The line about learning a little bit of self defense and a false sense of security, and lumping karate, then commenting on how easily TKD fighters were tied up brought on the attempt to show the differences.  If I offended, sorry about that, not intentional.  Now I've got Parker's Insites sitting on the shelf, I've never heard the Wing Chun link.  Hun Gar and other animal forms have a more direct linage to American Kempo than Wing Chun as far as I recall.  Could be wrong though, I'll dig around and ask a friend who trains both Chinese Kenpo and American Kenpo as well.  Heck, tonight we worked five swords, deflecting hammer, triggered salute and obscuring the storm, or its deflecting the storm can't remember the name at this moment.  Took those techniques and applied preasure point theory to them, fine tuned the body mechanics of each, and then struggled with the bunkai of Wankan{SP} kata.  Load of fun it was, just ended too soon.    On kata, yes a lot of instructors teach them for use in competition and for fittness.  Each of those is a fine thing, as long as you realise there are more to them than that, more than just basic coordination.  Meaning often isn't revealed because some just weren't taught what the movements really were.  Time with an instructor and the dedication to continue to work and master a kata, from three years for the most basic to ten pluss for more advanced ones, was also a measure of character.  If you got frustrated and quit or wouldn't do the work, why bother to teach you ways to seriously harm humans?   And yes, I agree very much so that finding an instructor and school that suits  you is of the up most importance.  You should have a clear goal in mind for your training, be it competition, self-defense, enjoyment or fittness.  That goal should match as well as possible to the goals and training offered at the school you chose.  You don't seek out traditional kenjitsu practice for the fitness level it offers, ok, so you could, but most would go with something else if that were the goal.    taykris, the "traning till your sick" in many more traditional school is seen as a mark of mental stamina, a refusual to accept your limitations.  Training sick, or to the point of utter fatigue is considered the mark of a dedicated karate-ka.  Training to the point of injury is considered foolish, it can cause perminant damage and delay training.  The point of that kind of training though, and I have to emphasis this, is to try to push past your limits, to realise that you have the mental strength to accomplish things you did not think were possible, or that you could not do.  It is not demanded, even in schools where it is considered a good thing to strive for.  More likely it is just not considered strange to do.   Fourecks, if you can afford an occasional book, and I feel your pain money wise, there are some great ones out there.  Ed Parker's series on Kenpo, the videos or books offered by Arnis International are great armed works.  If you were into the Tai Chi aspects, with history, philospy and a really rough outline/drawings of movements Tai Chi Classics is good.  Wally Jay's Small Circle Jujitsu is a great book.  George Dillman's series on preasure point fighting are excellent, though a bit pricey compaired to the rest.   A comment in passing on the 'old school' types, they are saddly fading, but if you look closely, some have passed on what they have to a newer generation that has the same mind-set as they do.  That the arts are serious business and that a black belt means something, that its a mark of skill and effort, not just something you buy on contract.  ps. takyris....Art of War for dating advice?  For the married man maybe*LOL*, but never in dating.  Then its more along the lines of jinjitsu steath tactics or Shakespearean acting!Kail</blockquote>

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