Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5209783" data-attributes="member: 82106">Sure, and a guy with a crossbow can fell an elephant in a single shot too. This is what I mean when I mention realism. Being knocked off its feat is in fact practically a fatal incident for an elephant. I agree they are powerful and frightening creatures, I've been in spitting distance of WILD elephants! My point is the reality of huge creatures is more complex than just "they're awesomely powerful combatants". In terms of how this plays out in 4e (or any other RPG I've played that has had such creatures) its not generally all that realistic perhaps, but is it really MORE unrealistic than the rest of the system? I'm not sure. I haven't gotten into a sword fight or tried to kill an elephant with primitive weapons (or any other kind actually).Anyway, I'd point out that the 4e stats for an elephant actually make it a fairly scary creature. It has 111 HP, AC20, 2 attacks that are +11 vs AC and both do around 14 average damage. One has reach 2 and the other knocks the target prone. They have a +11 Athletics bonus. Oddly the level of an elephant isn't listed for whatever reason in the Compendium but I'm guessing from the stats it is around an 8th level monster.Now, this elephant isn't going to be a massive threat to 8th level PCs, but its a juggernaut of destruction compared to any sort of ordinary person or even a highly capable and relatively experienced person (say a low level adventurer). I'd say one of these babies will probably TPK a level 1 party. Certainly it would give them a really bad day. It can push characters around left and right with its 25 STR +11 Athletics check, hit you from 10 feet away with its reach 2, etc. I think this elephant pretty well portrays a huge, scary, powerful animal that your average mundane medium sized humanoids are going to want to steer well clear of unless they're well prepared and experienced. In terms of your commentary on the "genericness" of things and their lack of flavor I think this is a trap that any game can fall into. There are systems that don't, but they are pretty much not portraying the PCs as powerful characters (look at CoC or Traveler for instance). The question that arises is is it POSSIBLE to create a workable system of epic heroes fighting monsters where there isn't a certain amount of genericization going on? After all the monsters need to be reduced to some sort of mechanics. The PCs need to have some possibility of defeating them, and for playability reasons the rules generally need to work fairly consistently even for these more extreme cases.I think if anything 4e can give you the basis for a more extreme sort of treatment than most systems. It means treating these kinds of threats more as story elements and using different types of mechanics, like gargantuan creatures that require skill challenges to kill or composite monsters, etc. As for how awesome the monsters are compared to the rest of the world, heck, a huge level 10 monster in the system BY THE BOOK is going to be a serious threat to anyone that isn't a PC (and at least 5th level). Your average village or town would be helpless against a couple rampaging Ogres or Hill Giants. MAYBE they might drive them off with massive casualties if its a town with a decent militia. A mid-paragon or higher tier monster of ANY kind? Totally invincible. There might well be NPCs around that can put up a fight against some of these kinds of threats, but generally speaking even a mere Flesh Golem would just wade through armies of normal people with nary a scratch.</blockquote>

Verification